About drums...

[No name]

I was browsing through my drum hits today, and I notice like most drums used in various genres like electronica or pop and especially Hip hop, the drum sounds aren't real drums, or at least they don't sound like it. Yet I just cannot see how someone could get these drum sounds by tweaking a synth. Where do they come up with these sounds anyways?

[Gregjazz]

I was browsing through my drum hits today, and I notice like most drums used in various genres like electronica or pop and especially Hip hop, the drum sounds aren't real drums, or at least they don't sound like it. Yet I just cannot see how someone could get these drum sounds by tweaking a synth. Where do they come up with these sounds anyways?

Sometimes it's real drums, but taken off old vinyl records, so you have that scratchyness, and then they put effects on top of that.

It's funny, I've had that same exact thought.

[No name]

Interesting, perhaps someone could fill us in then on how this all works???

[danyell]

a lot of the early snare hits are just gated and filtered whit noise, a lot of the kick sounds are just low notes from a sine wave oscillator with a sharp attack applied in the envelope section.

[v dub]

most, if not all, were made by drum machines. 808, emu sp1200, drumluator and various other classics.
If you put drumulator or 808 in google you'll find plenty of info on them. I'm trying to learn this stuff myslef at the mo, so i'm no expert but am making progress.

I've been trialing Sonic Charge Microtonic atm and it sounds phat and can synthesize percussion sounds. Reason redrum is a good sample based drum machine. Finally Waldolf Attack has an 808 and 909 kit among others.

BTW, this is my first post on KVR!

[Kim Lajoie]

I don't think we're talking about drumsynths. The kinds of drums J_Starner is talking about usually started life as acoustic drums, maybe sampled from vinyl, processed through layers of eq, filtering, distortion/drive, compression, etc. They're usually layered with synthetic drums or other percussion as well.

Forever,




Kim.

[jackson]

I would bet that a huge number of drum hits people assume to be synthesized are in fact samples of real drums, very heavily processed. And bringing drum machines into it helps to confuse; the 909 was not the only old school drum machine that combined synthesized hits with samples...

[Failed Muso]

I'd wager that the Hip Hop beats you refer to are made using the de rigeur Hip Hop sampler/drum machine/sequencer, the Akai MPC.

These machines, conceived by Akai and Roger Linn, are the standard weapon of choice of most of the Hip Hop community. Your drums are probably processed samples from an MPC.

The biggest and best...the MPC 4000and the latest and most affordable...the MPC 1000

[v dub]

"the drum sounds aren't real drums, or at least they don't sound like it. Yet I just cannot see how someone could get these drum sounds by tweaking a synth. Where do they come up with these sounds anyways?" J_Stanrner

sounded like a question about drum synths to me, maybe i'm wrong?!?
many hip-hip hits are layers of acoustic and synth drums. Some breaks contain fat kicks that don't need to be layered as well. Also a new break with a combo of synth kicks and a highpassed break is common. & i didn't even mention 909 Peace

& yes, most samples/hits started or ended up in the MPC

[grillo]

Well definitely layer sample and drumsynths, for the kickdrum it's a must, the 808 is perfect imo for that, it's round and very clean, and adds that deep rumble to anything you play on top.

For snares, lots of processing, eq. If you sample off vynil a hard compression brings out grit and character from the recording, pitchshifting your layers, adding claps, anything goes really.

[No name]

I was speaking about the drum samples that sound like real drums, but yet they have this certain quality to them that doesn't sound like real drums. I have found out more, and have actually started my own drum sets now (building a huge soundfont ) I've made a few and I am tryna learn FM synthesis in order to get some out of that. But I would have to say they are layered with both real and synthetic drums. The thing is, I find you really can get some acoustic drum like sounds out of a synth. It is like a hidden secret though, how they create their drums. They do sound processed also, heavily processed I mean. The 808 and 909 sound is easy to get though, i've found that out a few days ago. What I am going for though I wish to be a little bit more realistic, and I think the best way seems to be to layer acoustic and synth. Just cut out the bottom on a real drum and put the synthetic for the bottom to get good bass. The acoustic on the top once EQ'd and heavily processed give it that "thump" sound, as if you were hitting a real drum head. I ould be wrong though of course. All of the things you mentioned seem very possible, both layering and processing or a mix of both.

[No name]

I will never be happy until I have two drum machines by the way. The Sp1200 and the MPC 1000. I have wanted a MPC for as long as I have been into music. Funny thing is you can get an MPC cheaper than you can an SP1200 these days.

[C00kie]

I just cannot see how someone could get these drum sounds by tweaking a synth. Where do they come up with these sounds anyways?

Twenty years ago I owned an Arp Axxe. Quite a simple synth: VCO (square & saw waves + noise), VCF (filter)& VCA (amp) controlled by one ADSR.

One thing you could do is let the ADSR modify the pitch. Very fast I discovered you had to set attack & sustain to zero and use a short decay & release. This resulted in a kinda typical eighties "Simmons" sound. Blend a bit of white noise to it, set the filter to taste, and you have synthetic drums from base up to toms & snare.

Now use that white noise generator again, by itself. A short burst of noise with a thad of filter resonance controlled by the adsr will be the closed hihat. Raise the release of the adsr. Hold a note, and it will be short: closed hihat. Play a note briefly, and the release will kick in before it has decayed: open hihat!!

Quite an easy recipe, and I believe it works on nearly every synth.

[tee boy]

This is quite a funny one to be honest! Most of the sounds you get on these 100% royalty free sample CD's are actually created by layering and processing uncleared vinyl samples. I wont say all, but most sample CD's are made this way - and most producers wont deny it. Even the drum sounds you find in PCM synths can occassionally be sourced back to vinyl records.


But to answer the question:

1. Record live drums
2. Synthesize
3. Sample off records

Its then just about mixing and processing any or all of the above. For example, you might sample a vinyl snare, EQ it, then layer on top a synthesized noise snare, then a clap from a drum machine. You might then send the whole lot to an EQ, or any other processing chain. Sometimes it works to create an actual beat, then resample the hits out of it.

If you want to get into making drum sounds, then I recommend you do the following:

- Get all the free VST drum synths
- Find a big vinyl breaks pack to download
- Get a mic + preamp and raid you're house for anything remotely percussive.
- Go to Hollowsun and get all the old drum machine samples

Then, like i say just mix and mangle. Pitching is very important, so when mixing sounds be sure to pitch them compatibly. Also, be aware of phasing - sometimes you may need to filter out freq's or flip the phase to prevent problems.

[tee boy]

I will never be happy until I have two drum machines by the way. The Sp1200 and the MPC 1000. I have wanted a MPC for as long as I have been into music. Funny thing is you can get an MPC cheaper than you can an SP1200 these days.

Lol, you and me both fella! I love old samplers and drum machines. Bought a Drumulator the other day for £30 - this thing is a right contraption!

But yey, an MPC, an SP1200, a 909, an 808, a Simmons, a Linn... I'd love to get some of these. Not out of practicality, just cuz i love all that shite! My question is, why oh why have these babies not been reissued? Pretty much ever classic amp, guitar, preamp, mic, pedal etc has been reissued so why not these! I want a cheap 909!!!