KVR Audio

origami · Post by **origami** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:36 pm

Dwayne's imput was very important, I think. But Cevin Key's solo work shows that his talent is also great. Plus personally I like Ogre's singing a lot. His distorted singing was good for a time, but right now with so many "distorted singers" around i wouldn't like SP to sound like them. His way of singing gives dynamism to the new Puppy.

anyway, we're all free to have our opinion, that's great. I love old Puppy albums, especially ViviSectVi and Too Dark Park, but I also love The Greater Wrong of the Right.

mgcollins21 · Post by **mgcollins21** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:10 pm

I get critisized for this alot, but my favorite albums are the Brap albums, I'm talking about the back and forth albums and the one titled "Brap". We all know about the whole "get together, hook up electronic instruments, get high, and record". But what these albums really were is Skinny Puppy in their infancy (early '80s), getting extremely tweaked out and experimenting experimenting experimenting.....Some of these tracks you can tell they really didn't know what they were doing but it had that adventurous attitude that is so psychadelic....It was first hearing the live version of "Spasmolitic" on hallucinogens that made me say, "You know what? I've gotta buy a sampler!"

Imagine learning your chops in the early 80's with all that analog gear at that time in history, midi had just been invented...it must have been awesome!

dystonia_ek · Post by **dystonia_ek** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:16 pm

The Brap sessions are great stuff - I'm pretty sure that sort of approach is what inspired a lot of current electronic free jammers like Wolf Eyes, Hair Police et. al....

ResonantOrder · Post by **ResonantOrder** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:47 pm

dystonia_ek wrote:I'm just sad they didn't push the more nonlinear aspects further - 'Last Rights' was headed in the right direction but they've been sounding pretty domesticated since - I get the impression that a lot of what's lacking at the moment is Dwayne's input - their listenable period begins and ends with his entry into the group and his rather untimely exit, and it can't be just coincidental.

Your totally correct. Dwayne never received the credit he was due for his work with puppy. Neither did Rave. That's why Dwayne quit. He wasn't even credited properly for his work, which affected the amount of money he made from the albums. Ogre always wanted puppy to be more like a rock band with live guitars, Dwayne always fought him on that point. With Dwayne gone, Ogre can now do what he wants-and has. The end result is obviously not very puppy-like.

The new album just doesn't feel complete to me. The songs are too short and far too monotone in their construction. Goneja is a step in the right direction, but that lame dance track, of which I can't remember the name, is the worst track they've ever released. Most of the album reeks of 'collaboration', and has lost the flavor of what puppy was.

I understand that the newer fans are hungry and are willing to look past imperfections to get a truer glimpse of what was. But for those of us who were there for all the past album releases and tours, the new stuff is heresy.

I just wish Dwayne had lived. I would have loved to see what he would have done with all the new technology.

I hope the second album is less commercial, and that they actually shoot a proper video and Ogre gets over his 'this is just entertainment' attitude. That would probably make the greatest difference of all.

ResonantOrder · Post by **ResonantOrder** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:49 pm

dystonia_ek wrote:The Brap sessions are great stuff - I'm pretty sure that sort of approach is what inspired a lot of current electronic free jammers like Wolf Eyes, Hair Police et. al....

I haven't heard either of these. Are they true brap-like, or just noise based? It would be good to find some true brap.

dystonia_ek · Post by **dystonia_ek** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:56 pm

ResonantOrder wrote:
dystonia_ek wrote:The Brap sessions are great stuff - I'm pretty sure that sort of approach is what inspired a lot of current electronic free jammers like Wolf Eyes, Hair Police et. al....
I haven't heard either of these. Are they true brap-like, or just noise based? It would be good to find some true brap.

They sort of ride the line between structure and unstructure. Harder music than Puppy, to be sure, but rarely full-on noise. I find there's a similarity in atmosphere though. If you like TG and other 'first wave' industrial music of the late 70's then you'll probably go for it in a big way.

origami · Post by **origami** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:40 pm

I understand that the newer fans are hungry and are willing to look past imperfections to get a truer glimpse of what was. But for those of us who were there for all the past album releases and tours, the new stuff is heresy.

Resonant, don't take your opinion as general. I'm no new fan, I've been listening to Skinny Puppy for many years now (more than 10) and I like the newer stuff. I consider it a great album, same as i considered the process a good album.

Ogre always wanted puppy to be more like a rock band with live guitars, Dwayne always fought him on that point. With Dwayne gone, Ogre can now do what he wants-and has. The end result is obviously not very puppy-like.

Well, I don't know what to say. I mean, in theory what you say it's true, but not in practise. I don't know you but I definitely don't consider the new album to be rock with live guitars. I find it very very electronic. And I look forward to more albums by Puppy.

well, different people, different opinions. I respect that obviously.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:23 am

dystonia_ek wrote:I'm just sad they didn't push the more nonlinear aspects further - 'Last Rights' was headed in the right direction but they've been sounding pretty domesticated since - I get the impression that a lot of what's lacking at the moment is Dwayne's input - their listenable period begins and ends with his entry into the group and his rather untimely exit, and it can't be just coincidental.

Last Rights is far and away my least favourite Skinny Puppy album - it sucks. And they were doing just fine without Dwayne on Bites and Remission, it was AdrianSherwood who f**ked up their sound.

mgcollins21 wrote:Imagine learning your chops in the early 80's with all that analog gear at that time in history, midi had just been invented...it must have been awesome!

No, it was actually completely f**ked. You could work all day on getting the most amazing synth sound ever but once you had it, you had to get the most out of it in the shortest possible time because there was no way to store a patch. Then there was noisy pots/sliders, the difficulty of setting things up, the sheer weight of everything, MIDI sequencers with only one track [make one mistake on channel 15 and the first 14 channels are all down the toilet] - I don't miss one damned bit of it at all. I would say it all started coming into its own in the mid-80's with the advent of multi-channel sequencers and multi-timbral synths. My first really usable set-up was a KORG SQD-1, Casio CZ101 along with a KORG DW8000 and a couple of less used analogue pieces o' krap.

MikeLeuz · Post by **MikeLeuz** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:59 am

I don't have time to go in depth on what I think about new Puppy v. old Puppy... (but will quickly say that I'm a long-time fan who DOES like Greater Wrong)... but just wanted to stop in to say THANKS to Origami for the DVD news! I'm too busy to stay in the loop on new releases, so I definitely appreciate the heads up - now I just have to remember to keep looking for it or news on the release date.

origami · Post by **origami** » Thu May 26, 2005 9:56 am

You're welcome MikeLeuz. I'll post new info as soon as I know it.

origami · Post by **origami** » Thu May 26, 2005 10:14 am

I actually have news: the dvd is expected for June.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:47 pm

But will it be Region 0?

Borogove · Post by **Borogove** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:58 pm

ResonantOrder wrote:Your totally correct. Dwayne never received the credit he was due for his work with puppy. Neither did Rave. That's why Dwayne quit. He wasn't even credited properly for his work, which affected the amount of money he made from the albums.

Uhh... no. Dwayne was credited as guest on Mind: The Perpetual Intercourse, then got full billing on CFM, 66S6, Rabies, TDP, Last Rights, and The Process. He didn't quit; he took a break and OD'd on heroin and died just after Ogre quit.

Rave however was IIRC only given a full credit on 66S6.

Ogre always wanted puppy to be more like a rock band with live guitars, Dwayne always fought him on that point.
With Dwayne gone, Ogre can now do what he wants-and has. The end result is obviously not very puppy-like.

I think that's a misreading of Ogre's direction (given that the two Oghr albums are more like 80s synthpop, from a technical standpoint, than guitar rock), but it is true that specific arguments during The Process sessions were about guitar-rock versus techno.

...the new stuff is heresy.

Agreed, mostly. Which is too bad, because the Ogre-guesting track on Ghost of Each Room, "Frozen Sky" is IMO a perfect blueprint for what a reunited Skinny Puppy could have been - it's got some of the hallucinogenic aspects of old Puppy, plus the least wanky aspects of CKey's recent experimentation.

origami · Post by **origami** » Thu May 26, 2005 9:18 pm

Well I find 'Daddywarbash' or 'Ghostman' just great.

kodama · Post by **kodama** » Thu May 26, 2005 9:45 pm

It's awesome intelligent electro.

The only mistake was calling it Skinny Puppy, but then that means you get to hear the new band along with the old band when they tour.

It is kinda weird that GWOTR has the most gorey album cover & has the most chipper songs, also seeing Oghre covered in blood singing chipper songs is kinda

for Skinny Puppy fans