KVR Audio

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Mon May 30, 2005 3:49 pm

I guess though.. all in all.. its really like life..

everyone is out there doing something for different reasons.. and some people's means are other people's ends and etc.. oh well.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Mon May 30, 2005 3:56 pm

...xander wrote:most hotdogs are shaped like penises on purpose?

Most hotdogs are shaped like penises on purpose? And if that's only 'most' hotdogs, what exactly are the remaining minority of hotdogs shaped like?

That said, I think the original point was more why try to sound like the rest of the pack instead of sounding different to them. But it doesn't stop to consider that many people wish to conform. And that the common perception of iconoclasm really is just another way of conforming.

And looking at the touchstone styles of music mentioned early on (I skipped most of the middle pages) - trance, techno, dnb - those styles have become defined by their conformities (I suppose you could argue that all recognizable styles are in fact defined as such). It becomes more apparent when you have so many narrowly defined styles of music. Look at trance, every time someone decides to switch up their instrumentation, it becomes a new category.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Mon May 30, 2005 3:59 pm

shamann wrote:Look at trance

Sterling advice.

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Mon May 30, 2005 4:02 pm

shamann wrote:Most hotdogs are shaped like penises on purpose? And if that's only 'most' hotdogs, what exactly are the remaining minority of hotdogs shaped like?

xander · Post by **xander** » Mon May 30, 2005 4:05 pm

shamann wrote:
...xander wrote:most hotdogs are shaped like penises on purpose?
Most hotdogs are shaped like penises on purpose? And if that's only 'most' hotdogs, what exactly are the remaining minority of hotdogs shaped like?

Like hoses? Or B-flat Trombones?

That said, I think the original point was more why try to sound like the rest of the pack instead of sounding different to them. But it doesn't stop to consider that many people wish to conform. And that the common perception of iconoclasm really is just another way of conforming.

And looking at the touchstone styles of music mentioned early on (I skipped most of the middle pages) - trance, techno, dnb - those styles have become defined by their conformities (I suppose you could argue that all recognizable styles are in fact defined as such). It becomes more apparent when you have so many narrowly defined styles of music. Look at trance, every time someone decides to switch up their instrumentation, it becomes a new category.

Well said. I wish to know what the original poster's idea of 'originality' is and what is it exactly that is driving him "insane". THat many musicians do not fit within his definition of 'original'?

My point more or less was that it remains largely in the ear of the beholder. One person's Trance may be, in their eyes and ears, highly original, as opposed to what they measure it against, therefore it's all relative.

mayan · Post by **mayan** » Mon May 30, 2005 4:52 pm

very interesting points raised in this discussion...It's eye-opening to see the number of posts on the board regarding how do I make this type of music (which synth makes trance) and how do I copy the sound from this song, etc. On the one hand "imitation is the highest form of flattery" and I think most nascent artists learn alot by trying to figure out what someone else has already done and how to incorporate it in his or her artistic "vocabulary." To the extent it's a "leaping off" point, I think its a valuable exercise to explore others' structures and devices. There's also alot to be said for fitting one's vision into an already existing "structure" - like a sonnet, haiku, the perfect 3-minute pop song, fugue, etc. (none of which can I do)

Speaking strictly for myself, though, I would go crazy trying to make my stuff fit...In my most recent piece, I tried -to myself- to figure out a genre and was absolutely unable to. The problem with "conventions" is often that they are "conventional." Of course there's a reason for it - if an 18th century minuet was played at a club, it would most probably clear the dance floor because people associate dancing with a 133bpm (or whatever) and the thump-thump-thump of the bass drum.

And on the third hand (I'm sick outta my mind right now -haven't read the full thread and am probably raving incoherently - but meandering makes me feel better) the true creative spirit is gonna shine through no matter how hackneyed the genre. There are a number of people working in the "conventional" genres who are truly creating excrutiatingly original works. End of babble.

3*s · Post by **3*s** » Mon May 30, 2005 4:58 pm

because they like how it sounds.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:02 pm

Okay, enough wild guesses. Here is THE ANSWER to the OP's question!

ouroboros · Post by **ouroboros** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:05 pm

I can't afford to write the deluxe stuff.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:40 pm

mayan wrote:And on the third hand

Not incoherent at all. Among some folks, the phrase is used "... on the gripping hand..." for "on the third hand."

OTOP, not all of us have hands as such. =^_^=

Soniccat · Post by **Soniccat** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:47 pm

This has been an arguement in music for as long as there has been civilization. And probably why music does evolve over time. I have no problem with people creating music that has been done before, certain genre will be carried over from generation to generation which can be a good thing for those that love that particular genre.

I happen to think my music is original, not in genre but in sound and style, because it is created by me. I play a cerain way, I attack the instruments I play in a certain way, I choose sounds that reflect me and my personality, and I marry my influences in ways that others do not. When I first started out, in order to learn the technology that I have at hand. I deliberately tried to emulate a certain sound be it Tangerine Dream or King Crimson or the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Punk, Ambient, World Music, etc, etc, etc,. The point being that I could not sound exactly like them and because of that I have my own style.

That said, I think there is alot of original music out there and it is just a matter of looking for it and listening with an open mind. I have pretty eclectic tastes, I listen to all kinds of music and am always finding something that interests me in all kinds of genres. Every form of music that I get exposed to gets incorporated into my brain and may somehow make it's way into my recordings.

BTW there is an awful lot of original music right here at KVR. You just have to search for it. And that may mean spending alot of time listening to all sorts of music posted by alot of the different artists here.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon May 30, 2005 6:00 pm

Soniccat wrote:This has been an arguement in music for as long as there has been civilization.

Longer than that, I'd bet.

May 27, 250005 BCE: Og Kurnk beats log with rock, says "Me invent music."

May 28, 250005 BCE: Tarntz Vorbuz beats log with rock, says "Me invent music too."

May 29, 250005 BCE: Og Kurnk beats Tarntz Vorbuz with log, says "Me invent musical criticism. Him style entirely derivative."

May 30, 2005 CE: Cave men from GEICO adverts beat Meffy with a cease and desist order, say "Even Fred Flintstone was more eloquent than that. Give us a break, huh?"

Left Headphone · Post by **Left Headphone** » Mon May 30, 2005 6:05 pm

If I can $15,000,000 putting out a "standard" music cd, I want to be the most standard MF in the world. If it sales, why be different. Good music is good music no matter what form it comes in.

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Mon May 30, 2005 6:17 pm

like I said.. and clearly pointed out in this thread.. we are all making music for different reasons.. as a result its completely crazy to try to compare one from another.

mayan · Post by **mayan** » Mon May 30, 2005 6:47 pm

Meffy wrote:
mayan wrote:And on the third hand
Not incoherent at all. Among some folks, the phrase is used "... on the gripping hand..." for "on the third hand."

OTOP, not all of us have hands as such. =^_^=

heh-heh...we are inominate

Why do people feel the need to write standard music?