Why do people feel the need to write standard music?

[waveriderarts]

I happen to think my music is original, not in genre but in sound and style, because it is created by me. I play a cerain way, I attack the instruments I play in a certain way, I choose sounds that reflect me and my personality, and I marry my influences in ways that others do not. ...... The point being that I could not sound exactly like them and because of that I have my own style.

The Stones could not sound like real RnB either....

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Sometimes limitations define a style.


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[digitalmessiah]

Perhaps it's more of a problem here in Australia; where for some reason the people that are interested in electronic music are (for a large part) retarded ...

[The Chase]

Perhaps it's more of a problem here in Australia; where for some reason the people that are interested in electronic music are (for a large part) retarded ...

So true. Ever heard of pendulum? So true.

[herodotus]

Some others who are original to the same extent have become somewhat well known (e.g. Pierre Boulez) but almost never because of what made them original. For example, in the case of Boulez, he directed a major Symphony Orchestra and was a guest conductor all over the world. But to this day his music is as obscure as it gets.

Not exactly to the point, but me and a few friends got known to Boulez first because he had shouted in the loudest possible way against french conductor and composer René Leibovitz, stating L. would be half deaf and unmusical.
Klemperer (Otto), the conductor, listened to Boulez' early compositions and invited him to play something to him. Boulez was flattered...
So having this nickname I at least should get to know some music of Boulez, I think

You were there for that????

I am SO jealous!!


I have read about that incident in 3 different books. The Messiaen/Leibowitz divide, the Darmstadt serialists, all that stuff formed the subject of many happy hours of study.

I never could make it through that book by Leibowitz, but I always liked Messiaen and Boulez.

[kaze]

Wish I could write standard music. I guess I'll just have to settle for substandard for now.

[GypsyJazz]

This drives me fuckin insane!!
People putting so much time, energy and money into writing songs that sound like a million other songs?
Don't people understand that to write outstanding music you need to do something different? Push the boundaries? Surprise people??

hehehe
The sad truth is... most people don't wanna be different.
They wanna be just like everyone else.

It's sorta scary being unique, original and different.

Much easier to be part of the madding crowd.

Even sadder.... most people stop listening to anything new somwhere in their 20's and from then on music is just a form of nostalgia for them.

[VicDiesel]

"Oh you're a musician huh? Well, where are your hit singles?"

Isn't the point of this thread: "Oh, you're a musician? So how come you have a hit single?".

V.

[McLilith]

Just out of sheer boredom and and idle curiosity:

Does anyone think there are too many lemmings and not enough cliffs?




McLilith

[lawapa]

Music is a window to the soul. You don't have to be original to be. And yet? All extremes feed off curiosity. To explore. And this is the journey we take. good, bad or indifferent.

[Churchy]

"Oh you're a musician huh? Well, where are your hit singles?"

Isn't the point of this thread: "Oh, you're a musician? So how come you have a hit single?".

V.

f**k me sideways

who's talking about hit singles anyway?

not me

[Sascha Franck]

While there's marketing, ads, wish for fame, producers only wanting to continue what they were successful with, IMO musical and technical education most likely are responsible for a good amount of less innovative things to happen as well.
Just have a look at HOW often people at KVR have been asking for "famous tarnce hoover sounds and how to achieve them". The same goes for almost any kind of more or less popular sound.

But then, musical education seems to be even worse. I've walked through it (studied jazz/rock/pop at the conservatory), so I kinda know what I'm talking about. And while my knowledge might be of some help when, say, arranging a choir or even a string/brass section for an existing tune, I hardly ever come up with something fresh.
For quite a while I've been playing in some rock band (actually it's rather been a pop band using a rock/grunge sound), and it's allways been that the singer came up with some harmonies and I was the one replying like "No way you can do THAT!"... in the end we allways used his harmonies because they sounded quite a bit more fresh than my worn-out alternatives.
Also, when listening to some old tape-to-tape (or 4-track) stuff of mine, made back in the days when I knew about nothing, I'm still amazed about the "innovative" approaches I achieved.
I had no bass, so I sped up the 4-track, tuned down the guitar, recorded something and then set the speed back to normal so I had some bass. Did it sound anywhere close to a real bass? No way. Did it sound interesting? Hell yes!

I also had no idea about how to get back to that freaking Amaj tonic chord. Did I ever use any proper dominant (let alone a II-V progression) to get back to it? No way - instead I've been trying out about everything. And usually I came up with something reasonable, if not nice. These days my first option would be using, say, an E7, E7alt, Bb7, probably a G7... whatever. All of them would instantly sound OK, but would they sound "fresh"? No, they won't.

I also had no clue about drums or programming. I had a borrowed (later on bought) Emulator though. Did I know that kicks allways have to sit on beats 1+3, snares on 2+4? No, I didn't. Did that hold me back from doing some refreshing grooves? No way, more to the opposite... Today I usually start with some kick 1+3, snare 2+4 beat.

I could continue with a lot of examples. For me personally it sucks. I make my living being both an educated musician and somewhat educated technician (I'm teaching computer music related stuff), money is all well (at least most of the times), but I don't get out ANY music of my own that'd please me at all. It's all sounding standardized.

I truly wish there was some "learn the tools, then forget about it" way of doing it, but apparently there isn't, at least not for me. Sad thing.

[Hovmod]

What you said

While I understand what you're saying, you're blaming your typing skills for not being able to write, and that doesn't sit well with me.
Music theory is a way of understanding music, not a way of making it. It's a common language for talking about it, not a manual for composition.

I always use John and Yoko as examples.
John knew some theory and came up with a huge number of highly original and practically universally pleasing songs both within and outside of the perceived confines of theory.
Yoko, however, refused to learn anything (to keep her mind open or something), and ended up wrapped in a canvas bag on stage, howling like a wolf, out of tune and out of synch with anyone around her, to the embarrassment of herself and everyone but John, who was pussywhipped into pretending he liked it.

You're lucky who know the rules. If it takes you some time to break out of that mode of thinking, then work on that. But don't blame the theory or your knowledge of it - they're not rules, they're your shortcut to understanding what's going on.

I'm certain you are able to grasp why Verklärte Nacht is so groundbreaking, or why Maurerische Trauermusik was more shockingly avant garde at the time Mozart wrote it than anything ever heard on this forum. And that's infinitely valuable, IMO.

I always (always) struggle with music, but I don't think it's because I know something about it. I didn't create groundbreaking music before I learned about it either.

[herodotus]

I always use John and Yoko as examples.
John knew some theory and came up with a huge number of highly original and practically universally pleasing songs both within and outside of the perceived confines of theory.
Yoko, however, refused to learn anything (to keep her mind open or something), and ended up wrapped in a canvas bag on stage, howling like a wolf, out of tune and out of synch with anyone around her, to the embarrassment of herself and everyone but John, who was pussywhipped into pretending he liked it.

That is truly classic.

I will be using that in the future.

[lawapa]

While I understand what you're saying, you're blaming your typing skills for not being able to write>-quote hovmod/

I never took music theory And know little of what is really happening. And yet at times my tunes have impressed those more capable than me. My nephew took music all through school and then earned a scholarship to college. He has remarked at times about how this knowledge has hindered his creative flow. I on the other hand simply do because I can and because I feel the need to not because I earn my living doing it. But the more I know about what I'm doing the more effective I get at doing what I want to accomplish. But I have heard this before and I wonder about it. That knowledge somehow constrains you and hinders the creative process. Since I'm not educated as a musician, composer I just go at it with what I have and it's all intuitive. Right or wrong I bring what I've absorbed over the years to what I do.

[McLilith]

Just have a look at HOW often people at KVR have been asking for "famous tarnce hoover sounds and how to achieve them". The same goes for almost any kind of more or less popular sound.

The thing that shocks me is not how often it happens, but how determined they are to exactly duplicate the sound from a record, when the original artist probably wouldn't even play it the exact same way twice. It's not as if most of these "elusive sounds" couldn't be replaced with an equally interesting alternative.

That said, I'm still trying to find out which 35mm camera and motordrive the J. Geils band sampled for their hit song "Freeze Frame". I just gotta have that exact sound for my next composition, and my Nikon FM with MD-11 motordrive didn't even come close.

Oh, and my thunderstorm recordings don't exactly match those used in the Doors' "Riders on The Storm", or the The Who's "Love Reign O'er Me". Now, how am I supposed to get my Doors/Who tribute band started, without the prerequiste thunderstorm sounds???



McLilith