Your choice in FM synths?

[kodama]

i think he means mono as in not stereo

[spaceman]

I've got an FM7 for sale for PC

[whyterabbyt]

kodama quoth i think he means mono as in not stereo

Ah, I see. That makes more sense.

[emdot_ambient]

I want to try and learn FM synthesis tonight...

I looked up the word optomism in the dictionary and its definition was something like "a person who believes they can learn FM synthesis in one night."

[gbles]

In my humble opinion, Sytrus is the best for *just* FM synthesis. There are envelopes and LFOs for just about everything, giving a lot of room for sound creativity. Its a little on the expensive side, but definitely worth it.
An alternative, which is not as polished but sounds very good, is Foorius. The filters are great and I can get them to screech in a way that Sytrus (and most other synths) can't, but, overall, its nowhere near as polished as Sytrus. That's why its donationware
I don't own any of the others so can't comment on them too well. I liked FM7 and Rhino, but the features Sytrus had, that they didn't, suited me better.

[No name]

Anyone interested in checking out my FM synth made with Synth Maker? It's not finished, but its currently useable.

I'd love to give it a try.
---

I think you were right, and the definition for optimism should be so. It's been a while, and well, haven't got my hand around it yet. I'm gonna go back to oxeFM and also give FM heaven a try, from everyones post FM heaven sounds quite unique for the price. I even tried building one in synthedit last night, but I figured what's the use. There are plenty of already made ones to go at now. I see FM synthesis is a very tricky subject. I tried additive once and that didn't work out well either, but I only tried one synth anyways.

Also, I seen someone say you could actually get a DX7 for $150? If you can then it would be quite amazing to work with such a legend at such a cheap price. I don't know why you would even go for something like FM7 if you could get a DX7 for that price.

[gbles]

I don't know why you would even go for something like FM7 if you could get a DX7 for that price.

Probably because it goes beyond the original DX7 in a few areas. Somebody that has FM7 could better explain what they are.

[No name]

Just looked the DX7 up on ebay.com too. I want to buy one Can't beat that price

[emdot_ambient]

I don't know why you would even go for something like FM7 if you could get a DX7 for that price.

Probably because it goes beyond the original DX7 in a few areas. Somebody that has FM7 could better explain what they are.

Well, there are several advantages to the FM7, first of all it's interface is far improved over the original. I've never tried programming a DX7 but I have had extensive experience on the DX100 (a 4 operator version of the DX7 FM), and I can tell you that it was no picnic. FM7 allows you to access its controls in a much more organized and easily accessible way.

Added to that is the fact that the DX7 limits you to a fixed set of algorithms from which to choose. FM7 has a programming matrix where you can create your own algorithms to use as the starting point for your FM7 patches.

Also, the original DX-7 used only sine waves for operator waveforms, whereas the FM7 provides up to 32 different types of operator waveforms from which to choose. Some of Yamaha's later versions of FM allowed for more than sine waves, but not the original DX7.

Then there's the sound path. Even consumer grade sound cards today outstrip the quality of DA's from the '80's. You'll find that the sound quality is much cleaner and suffers from less grunge and aliasing.

FM7 also adds distortion and filter operators, extensive modulation capabilities, an effects section with stereo chorus, flanging and delay. It also uses up to 8 operators for modulation.

On top of all that, its envelopes are graphical envelopes with unlimited number of stages plus looping.

And . . . it's not 20 year old hardware. It's not going to suddenly crap out on you when the internal battery goes FOOM, or some diode decides it just can't take it any longer.

True, it doesn't look as good on a keyboard stand and it's DAMN HARD TO SEE ALL THE LITTLE FIDDLEY BITS WHEN YOUR PC MONITOR RUNS AT 1280x1024 RESOLUTION (wish NI would get that message). But it sounds way better and is more flexible than the original DX7's.

Hey, even Eno loves it!

[emdot_ambient]

Just looked the DX7 up on ebay.com too. I want to buy one Can't beat that price

Yes but which version of the DX7? There were several. The general consensus is that the DX7 MkII is the best version. Here's a snip I found on the web:

"The original DX7 has a rather crude MIDI specification. But soon a whole industry of DX7 add-ons and support products grew up, such as Grey Matter's E! expansion kit, which added a large amount of internal patch locations (320 to be more exact), a greatly improved MIDI specification, some simple tone controls and the possibility of patch layering. Many of these features were later to be found on the DX7 mkII..."

[deggy]

This depends on how many operators you need. I know that both FM7 and FM Heaven offered 6 operators. FM7 also had a few effects operators as well (with things like distortion and delay I think). With FM7, you had a variety of waveforms. I’m not sure if FM Heaven had the same amount of possible waveforms.

Also, the EFM-1 that’s included in Logic 7 only has 2 operators, as carrier and a modulator. I think that MDA’s/image line’s DX-10 has a similar setup but with 3 operators (could be two but I think it’s 3 – please someone tell me if this is true). Plus the dx-10 has phaser, reverb, a parametric eq and delay.

So, the one I would probably go with is FM7 because (at least on the surface) it seems like the one that’s the easiest to program and has the most features. I really like its GUI. It makes FM synthesis much easier to understand than when I was using a DX7 without an instruction manual back in the day. + it has a bunch of extras (the DX7 only had one possible waveform I think (sine wave) and the TX-81z, while allowing different waveforms, only had 4 operators I think).

Again, I could easily be wrong about any of this stuff so please correct me if I’m wrong.

[McLilith]

Yes but which version of the DX7? There were several.

Several?

That's odd. I only remember two versions of the DX7. There is the original, and the DX7 mkII.

If you want to stretch things just a little, and include modules as well as complete keyboard instruments, then there was also the TX7. It was a sort of "table top" module, with a few buttons and an LCD screen. Lot's of people refer to it as a "brick", because of it's rugged and rectangular appearance.

Actually, the TX7 is probably the cheapest way into an authentic DX7 sound, if you don't need the keyboard. If you can find them on eBay, they usually sell very cheaply, but their sound is identical to the DX7.

If you want to get farther away from the original DX7 with a keyboard, there are also the TF-1 modules used in the TX816 monster FM synth (the equivalent of 8 DX7s inside one large rack cabinet, and working as one large synth.)


take care,
McLilith

[loophead]

The greatest thing about LoftSoft FM Heaven is that it is FAR superior to the original but lets you load all the origian patches (there are over 20 Thousand of them ! It has antialiasing filters when you want them and MORPHING presets ! All sorts of modulation etc.etc.

But the important issue for FM is that it lets you mod any osc(s) to any osc(s) which the yamaha would not do. And has 16 waveshapes instead of just sine.

In an old Keyboard Mag interview Wendy Carlos said that the problem with the Yamaha was they "LEFT OUT THE MOST IMPORTANT ALGORITHMS ! " and this is someone who knew Chowning at Bell Labs when FM synthesis was discovered/invented.

Dont be a dope buying an antique piece of junk. Go demo 'FM Heaven' and compare it to the other available offerings.

[bluedad]

Yes but which version of the DX7? There were several.

Several?

That's odd. I only remember two versions of the DX7. There is the original, and the DX7 mkII.

there was the original dx7
then the DX7s
and DX7mkII (in two flavors one w/without it's own floppy drive storage)

[dougsyo]

Also, I seen someone say you could actually get a DX7 for $150? If you can then it would be quite amazing to work with such a legend at such a cheap price. I don't know why you would even go for something like FM7 if you could get a DX7 for that price.

A couple of reasons to pick FM7 over a DX7:
- space
- convenience
- latency (depends how good your sound card is)
- Ease of programming

Doug