Are Sonar 4 Studio Plugins Any Good?

[Meffy]

billybuck: Now that you mention it, I have 2XL... maybe I ought to reinstall those plugs with my current Sonar 3. I remember liking them in spite of/because of their simplicity.

Paul G: Heh, I remember things going back and forth with the opinions of the Pantheon DX... I hear the differences between it and other reverbs, but am hard pressed to say "oh, this is better because ____" or "that one's best for ______."

I'm definitely liking Pristine Space Light, but am now itching for the space designer app so I can make artificial impulses. Oh well, it's cheaper than Nikon Acquisition Syndrome anyway!

[billybk1]

billybuck: Now that you mention it, I have 2XL... maybe I ought to reinstall those plugs with my current Sonar 3. I remember liking them in spite of/because of their simplicity.

Yeah, I would, as they are great plugins and can come in handy, when you need them. When you put the SONAR 2XL, CDROM disk in, and start the install, you may get a dialog box indicating that DirectX 8.1 is not detected, on your system. You will need to download this DirectX Utility, from Cakewalk. You run this patch, in the background first and while you are installing 2XL, this will allow you to install from the CDROM, even though you have a newer version of DirectX installed:

http://www.cakewalk.com/support/dx9.asp

Just go through the normal install process (serial number etc.) and then de-select all install options except for Audio FX and click on the Options tab to the right and deselect all the plugins except for the SonicTimeworks (should be at or near the bottom of the list). Now the only thing that will be installed, from the CDROM, will be the 2 Sonic Timeworks plugins.

Edit: Meffy, I was just checking out the Sonic Timweworks website and you can buy the Compressor X and EqualiserV1, for $179 and $249, respectively. I forgot how expensive those plugins really are. They design a lot of Scope and Pro Tools plugins too:

http://www.sonictimeworks.com/purchase.php

I should use them more, but after I got my UAD-1's they kinda got pushed aside, in favor of my DSP plugins. I still use them, but not nearly as often as I used to.

If you do re-install the Sonic Timeworks plugins there is also a plugin update patch that addresses some issues, after 2 XL was released:

http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb2003167.asp

Details at the bottom of the page.

[Paul G]

Paul G: Heh, I remember things going back and forth with the opinions of the Pantheon DX... I hear the differences between it and other reverbs, but am hard pressed to say "oh, this is better because ____" or "that one's best for ______."

I'm definitely liking Pristine Space Light, but am now itching for the space designer app so I can make artificial impulses. Oh well, it's cheaper than Nikon Acquisition Syndrome anyway!

Meffy:

Yeah. Someday I intend to learn how to get what I need out of the thing but for now I'm wanting a verb plug that sounds good out of the box with just a little tweaking. Pristine Space Light with some of the Lexicon plate impulses sounds great!

I do like the afore mentioned preset for the Cakewalk FX Reverb too.

Paul

[kilroy]

I do like the afore mentioned preset for the Cakewalk FX Reverb too.

Speaking of which...the parameters as promised.

EMT emulation attempt for DSP-FX Studioverb

Room Size - 0.68
Decay Time - 3.44 seconds
High Frequency Roll Off - 20.0 (wide open)
High Frequency Decay - 20.0 (wide open)
Mix - 100% for aux send
Out Level - 100%
Density - .22
Predelay - 5.0 ms
Motion Depth - .27
Motion Rate - 32.0

A few notes...

Motion rate and depth are sensitive to the particular source and need to be carefully tweaked with this in mind.

Leave the high frequency rolloff wide open and shape the reverb with a real EQ. EQ the returns to tame resonances and shape the overall character of the sound...EQ the send to carve frequencies you don't want hitting the reverb input.

Compress the returns for more density and texture...compress the send for more transient control going into the reverb input.

I like to commit things once I am happy with the sound...then remove the plugin from the realtime environment. I *always* process a separate audio track with the wet mix turned right up, and the output levels set so as to render a processed file that is slightly below 0db. I really smash the reverb input to fill the meters up as much as I can before rendering, leaving a wee bit of headroom for any further processing...which is pretty well always when it comes to reverb. The resulting 100% wet track is mixed with the dry source track in a separate audio lane to get the desired wet/dry balance.

Sorry so late Paul. It was a looong, looooong gig.

*edited to move a silly decimal point.*

[wwwill]

Yeah, I'm now golden-eared sonic guru, but here's my rundown on the Sonar4 Producer value:

Sonitus plugs are VERY useful, well worth the price of the upgrade to Producer.

Lexicon Pantheon is NOT a PCM 80, PCM 90, 960, 480, 300 or MPX500. With that said, Pantheon is still on of my favorite 'verbs for certain things, not my primary feature 'verb. I grab it for more cold, metalic, short-decay energy; usually place WAY in the back of the mix. I would certainlly grab the Sonitus reverb, Ambience, Glaceverb or WAReverb before the Lexicon. It's really just another spice to cook with. You have to know how to use the right tool for the right job.

The Cakewalk FX are useful, I used them a lot when I only had Sonar2. They have been a bit overshadowed by the Sonitus, which again I think highly of.

[Paul G]

Speaking of which...the parameters as promised.

EMT emulation attempt for DSP-FX Studioverb

Thank you very much for this preset Kilroy. I look forward to trying it out.

I like to commit things once I am happy with the sound...then remove the plugin from the realtime environment. I *always* process a separate audio track with the wet mix turned right up, and the output levels set so as to render a processed file that is slightly below 0db. I really smash the reverb input to fill the meters up as much as I can before rendering, leaving a wee bit of headroom for any further processing...which is pretty well always when it comes to reverb. The resulting 100% wet track is mixed with the dry source track in a separate audio lane to get the desired wet/dry balance.

That's good advice. I learned that trick from my uncle back in the 70's. Of course that was the analog days.

Sorry so late Paul. It was a looong, looooong gig.

Glad you survived it. I hope it was a good one though. Thanks again.

Paul

[Paul G]

EMT emulation attempt for DSP-FX Studioverb

Room Size - 0.68
Decay Time - 3.44 seconds
High Frequency Roll Off - 20.0 (wide open)
High Frequency Decay - 20.0 (wide open)
Mix - 100% for aux send
Out Level - 100%
Density - .22
Predelay - 5.0 ms
Motion Depth - 27.0
Motion Rate - 32.0

Kilroy:

Thanks again for the EMT Emulation preset. One question though...The "Motion Rate" setting only goes to 2.00. If you get a chance, could you check that for me. Thank you.

For anyone who may be interested, here are some presets I picked up over at the Soanr forum.

This is also an EMT emulation that I think was submitted by Chaz.

Room size = 0.50
Decay Time = 1.79
High Freq. Rolloff = 11.09
High Freq. Decay = 11.09
Density = 0.67
Predelay = 30.00
Motion rate = 0.20
Motion Depth = 88.00
Level = 1.00
Mix = 1.00

This preset is one that Jonas uses on vocals.

Room size = 0.53
Decay Time = 1.14
High Freq. Rolloff = 20.00
High Freq. Decay = 20.00
Density = 0.69
Predelay = 84.00
Motion rate = 0.82
Motion Depth = 45.00
Level = 1.00
Mix = 1.00

Let me know what you guys thing of these.

Paul

[Paul G]

Lexicon Pantheon is NOT a PCM 80, PCM 90, 960, 480, 300 or MPX500. With that said, Pantheon is still on of my favorite 'verbs for certain things, not my primary feature 'verb. I grab it for more cold, metalic, short-decay energy; usually place WAY in the back of the mix.

I read some good tips from Craig Anderton about how best to use this verb. If I can remember where, I'll post a link.

Paul

Here they are:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1934 ... y=&#250713

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=193442&mpage=3&key=

[kilroy]

EMT emulation attempt for DSP-FX Studioverb

Room Size - 0.68
Decay Time - 3.44 seconds
High Frequency Roll Off - 20.0 (wide open)
High Frequency Decay - 20.0 (wide open)
Mix - 100% for aux send
Out Level - 100%
Density - .22
Predelay - 5.0 ms
Motion Depth - 27.0
Motion Rate - 32.0

Kilroy:

Thanks again for the EMT Emulation preset. One question though...The "Motion Rate" setting only goes to 2.00. If you get a chance, could you check that for me. Thank you.

My bad, mate. That is supposed to be .27 not 27. Serves me right for trying to type in a sleep deprived stupor.

[Meffy]

billybuck: Wow, thanks so much for all the info! I've already done the thing with the DX utility, and will now have to dig out those older CDs. :-)

*deep bow*

Meffy

[Paul G]

Serves me right for trying to type in a sleep deprived stupor.

Thanks my friend. Now get some sleep.

Paul