Happy 90th Birthday, LES PAUL!

[Hink]

I'll go hug my '76 Les Paul Deluxe.

And I my '73. Thanks Les, you really brought some joy into my life.

I'm more grateful for his innovations in multi-track recording then his guitar design...

[morelia]

When I was using an 8 track tape recorder I was. Now that I am a DAW boy my guitar seems like the closest link I have to his innovations. But he gave so much to the development of music. Thanks for everything I say.

[Hink]

When I was using an 8 track tape recorder I was. Now that I am a DAW boy my guitar seems like the closest link I have to his innovations. But he gave so much to the development of music. Thanks for everything I say.

we'll have to disagree there...I'm sure many would tell you why....but I think Les Pauls are over priced half assed guitars....sure they're well made by factory standards (I bet my guitars have better workmanship and I bet I pay more attention to detail then mr 9-5er), but cheesy pick-ups, average at best hardware and nice wood....sorry you're getting a couple hundred bucks worth of guitar and a grand plus worth of name...

[morelia]

Sure, but what is the bad news?

[feyshay]

sorry you're getting a couple hundred bucks worth of guitar and a grand plus worth of name...

been there, heard that... It's stereotypical now.

[IIRs]

[Hink]

now honestly, do you think the guitar makes you better...oh wait now I see who it is...we've been here b4... ...of course the difference between your guitar and mine is about a grand went in someone else's pocket, where I saved that money and got a really hot hooker too okay so I lied about the hooker

Hey plat, (hope you dont mind that) I dont know if I suggested this to you before but you should try a couple tunings I like...Am EAEACE (my main tuning) and now I'm doing a tune that's in Dm so I'm tuned DADFAD...the Dm has some killer scale oppurtunities, and the emotion of the Dm adds to the expression...I'd love to know your opinions on the Am though....give it a few days, transpose some of your favorite tunes....I bet you find it's more "natural" then standard...

[IIRs]

now honestly, do you think the guitar makes you better...oh wait now I see who it is...we've been here b4... ...of course the difference between your guitar and mine is about a grand went in someone else's pocket, where I saved that money and got a really hot hooker too okay so I lied about the hooker

Hey plat, (hope you dont mind that) I dont know if I suggested this to you before but you should try a couple tunings I like...Am EAEACE (my main tuning) and now I'm doing a tune that's in Dm so I'm tuned DADFAD...the Dm has some killer scale oppurtunities, and the emotion of the Dm adds to the expression...I'd love to know your opinions on the Am though....give it a few days, transpose some of your favorite tunes....I bet you find it's more "natural" then standard...

deja vu..

You have mentioned the tuning thing before.. I know where you're coming from, and I agree that a different tuning can inspire all sorts of stuff that wouldn't have happened otherwise.. but I've been working for many years on an ability to play 'mentally', meaning I can hear a melody, and imagine where my fingers would need to move to play it. (Its a good trick: you can practise without being anywhere near a guitar!!) Whenever I play a guitar in non-standard tuning I feel that, not only is all that training now wrong, but any time I spend learning to play that new tuning will undermine the muscle memories I have already set up..

As an example: My first instrument was the violin which I started aged 4. When I switched to guitar at about 14, I had quite a hard time at first un-learning the violin style up-down vibrato I had developed, and learning a new BB King style string bending technique.. on the few occasions I have picked up a violin over the last ten years or so I have found myself doing the opposite! (For the record, BB King style vibrato works much less well on a violin than Yehudi Menuhin style vibrato on a guitar!)

Thats just a personal choice though..

[lunarhalo]

Leo Fender just hijacked this thread....

[xander]

Les Paul is great and an innovator for his time, for sure and deserves great respect.

Even so, I could never cotton to the feel or the sound of an LP in my hands, though I have owned several, including a rare LP Studio Bass and a Junior. They all had a kind of 'muddy' sound in my ears. Listen to someone like Guitar Jeff though and he makes his goldtop really sing.

Been a Fender man all my natchul life, but I have a Gretsch Country Gentleman, Gretsch reissue Duo Jet, and an old beat up ES-335 that I also fancy.

[Hink]

You have mentioned the tuning thing before.. I know where you're coming from, and I agree that a different tuning can inspire all sorts of stuff that wouldn't have happened otherwise.. but I've been working for many years on an ability to play 'mentally', meaning I can hear a melody, and imagine where my fingers would need to move to play it. (Its a good trick: you can practise without being anywhere near a guitar!!) Whenever I play a guitar in non-standard tuning I feel that, not only is all that training now wrong, but any time I spend learning to play that new tuning will undermine the muscle memories I have already set up..

Truly I can relate to that, it took my half brother a while to convince me alternate tunings were cool. I totally understand what you mean by hearing the melody and your fingers knowing where to go. That too is a goal of mine and one that has improved greatly because of alternate tunings.

See while you're programming your mind..."this note..this position" it's quite easy to become quite complacent and as I have said, fall into a trap. S.A.P. liked my words so much he said he was gonna name his album after it..."pentatonic whores". God I have met so many, even argued with twits that all the "stars' use are pentatonic scales for solos.

Now take the alternate tuning approach. You still want to achieve the fingers knowing the route by themselves, however it's different because you are not just conditioning yourself to go "here" in this key, play "this" in this key. Instead you learn the tonic structure of the scales and chord, and even better because you don't "see" them the same way in other tunings you eventually are driven to being able to hear the differences. You will sharpen your ear dramatically, but it wil take time. You will understand intervals better...perhaps it would be wiser to say you will hear the intervals better. So then a visual of where you should be on the neck is erased, your ears tell the fingers where to go by the sound and interval.

Example, you're soloing in a song and you're playing in a minor, you know to diminish the 3rd, the 6th and the 7th it doesn't matter what key your in, the note name ABC...ect doesn't matter once you develop you ear and your perception. But even more important you know the "sound" of the interval so the fingers know instantly "whole or half step" not C or C#.

FWIW I solo in many tunings, my half brother bought a transperformance so he could return to standard mid-song to solo in standard. I suggest it to you because I know you are more like me and not always looking at playing things the traditional ways.

Here's a fun exercise to do with friends.

Take your sequencer, open the piano-roll and have someone program two notes to repeat (eventually you'll want to drop the repeat part), and try to determine the interval between notes. Of course it's much easier to do with your guitar or on a piano/keyboard. You should be able to quickly recognize at least 80% over one octave, however you eventually can hear the interval over two octaves, then three (if you're lucky). A neat little side advantage, suddenly you find yourself tuning you guitar differently..ie, not with a tuner, or the 5th fret method, or even with harmonics...instead (at least for me) you start tuning by chords. You play a chord and your ear syays "it's the 5th that's flat"..ect

Learning the art of alternate tunings is quite a learning curve, no doubt about that. Furthermore you yell at you fingers for going to the same place out of habit. However eventually you think in patterns, you quickly recognize the intervals between the strings and incorporate that into a much more flowing playing style.

This song I'm working on in Dm is from a poem (taken from a book of poems) that my father wrote in 1941 when he was 20 (I never saw this side of him until I discovered this notebook "Of Years A Score"). I have found that a real jazz feeling on the guitar is the result. I have tried it with adding some Hammond, I tried piano, I tried strings and pads..but I have found in this case that the minimalist way is best. A bass line, drums, vox and a very clean guitar tone. The Dm of course is an emotionally inspiring key to begin with, the guitar's timbre in that tuning doesn't leave a "somethings missing" feel like often happens when a guitarist goes to solo and there is only drums and bass backing it up.

For those who have made a million excuses why they dont play slide (and face it many don't because it never sonds right or the same) usually "I dont want to set up my action for it". Try tuning your guitar to open "E" EBEG#BE (the minor is EBEGBE, which is nice for beginners because half the strings are the same as standard, actually 4 if you count the low E) while you're in this tuning try some blues bars..no strecth's...you might play an Aerosmith song, a Thorogood song or some southern rock by accident...but it's like you can't get the slide to sound bad if you try. Now drop that tuning one half step across the board Eb,Bb,Eb,G,Bb,Eb...get out you SRV cd's and lookout...all those song you thought you knew SRV didn't only use open Eb, but most often he did.

Because the guitar in Standard starts and ends with E many people foolishly believe that's an E tuning, when SRV in interviews said he used Eb I can tell you many people I know dropped their tuning a half step and were dispointed..

Really with alternate tunings most apparent advantage is that it opens doors to unique chords, scales and such...but it improves your ear, it improves your knowledge of theory...and someimes answers questions.

Want an answer, how many people play "Ain't talkin 'bout Love", but it never sounds the same as EVH. Again the excuses, like "it's because of his brown sound". Now tune your guitar to Abm, you'll find not only does it sound right but most of it is open, falling down to the G and back up to the open Abm is spot on, and has the "brown sound" feel..

[/quote]

[IIRs]

Take your sequencer, open the piano-roll and have someone program two notes to repeat (eventually you'll want to drop the repeat part), and try to determine the interval between notes.

This is good advice, but I hope you will forgive me for laughing when I read it: I mastered that particular trick at about the age of 6 (of course it was my mum playing 2 notes on the piano, rather than a piano-roll, but the principle is the same.)

Since then I discovered an even better way to train your ears: listen to a full piece of music, then de-construct it, program it as MIDI, and convert to a polyphonic ringtone. Repeat up to 10 times a day for approx 2 1/2 years..

[Hink]

Take your sequencer, open the piano-roll and have someone program two notes to repeat (eventually you'll want to drop the repeat part), and try to determine the interval between notes.

This is good advice, but I hope you will forgive me for laughing when I read it: I mastered that particular trick at about the age of 6 (of course it was my mum playing 2 notes on the piano, rather than a piano-roll, but the principle is the same.)

Since then I discovered an even better way to train your ears: listen to a full piece of music, then de-construct it, program it as MIDI, and convert to a polyphonic ringtone. Repeat up to 10 times a day for approx 2 1/2 years..

I think many of us did understand intervals young, but many of the younger musicians these days don't.

You gotta admit it though, if you break it down to basics standard tuning makes little or no sense. As it was originally developed in the middle-ages it seems mighty odd we still as a whole stick to such an arbitrary tuning..

I really think the point I was making though was more scale relations then intervals, though you can't have one without the other, perhaps that would of been a better way of explaining it...

I did have one friend that could never get around this though..say he was playing an A, I would say play a minor third....he'd say huh? I'd say C...then if he's playing a E and I said play the minor third, he'd play a C... (though in that example the mistake wouldn't of been that damaging playing a C instead of a G)

[IIRs]

You gotta admit it though, if you break it down to basics standard tuning makes little or no sense.

Well.. it is pretty versatile, you must admit. I've been playing for over 15 years and I'm still finding interesting new chord shapes and variations..

I do plan to set up a guitar for slide playing though, so I will be exploring your recomendations then: I not yet found a tuning for slide playing that really inspires me..

[Hink]

You gotta admit it though, if you break it down to basics standard tuning makes little or no sense.

Well.. it is pretty versatile, you must admit. I've been playing for over 15 years and I'm still finding interesting new chord shapes and variations..

I do plan to set up a guitar for slide playing though, so I will be exploring your recomendations then: I not yet found a tuning for slide playing that really inspires me..

I rarely play slide, but I got this cool glass slide that's about 2" long, I've got tiny hands so I stuffed it with scraps of auralex and it fits on my pinky nicely...but I am a 4 fingered guitar player and I use my pinky a lot so it really gets in the way...open A is also good for slide, but I think E is still better..