I have noticed a great deal of hype and praise surrounding the music of Richie Hawtin. There’s a local reporter who reviewed Plastikman’s “Closer” album as being one of the best albums of the year when it came out. Seeing as I disagree with a large amount of the things Rayner writes, I ignored it. However, even before that review, I’ve noticed that Plastikman has gained lots of praise in the world of electronic music. In the past, I have had the opportunity to check out “Musik” and “Sheet One” but I never really got into either of those releases. When it came out, I decided to check out “Closer” (it was an impulse buy) because of all the hype surrounding it. After listening to it I just didn’t get it. The same thing goes for a bunch of the +8 stuff. I just don’t get it. However, I always meet people who love this music. It’s not like I don’t understand the concept of minimalism (at least as far as I know). I do own and enjoy recordings of works by many minimalist composers. I just don’t understand this aesthetic choice to write music that develops at such a slow rate. It’s like this music is taking the concept of minimalism to much greater extremes.
The purpose of this thread isn’t to bash Hawtin’s music in any way. I just want to understand a bit about why people like it. I just want to understand what makes this music enjoyable. Why are so many people drawn this type of music? Does it have something to do with his choice of sounds/patches or is it a rhythmic thing maybe? Does it have something to do with an acknowledgement or respect for the process that he uses to write his material? I read on the NI website that he used to sequence tracks with a TR-909 as his main sequencer. Maybe if I understand this music a little more, I might also develop some sort of appreciation for it.
Even though I was curious to hear from fans of this music, also feel free to comment if you also “just don’t get it” or just simply don’t like it.
Thanks
d
What do think about Richie Hawtin/Plastikman?
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- KVRAF
- 3964 posts since 31 Aug, 2003 from In a foreign town, in a foreign land
I'm not a fan, but I like much of the Plasticman stuff. Nice chilled acid-house.
Later stuff and the records as Ritchie Hawtin seem to take a different approach and I like the minimalism (except for the Minus stuff, it seems to miss the point somehow).
The nice thing about minimalism, in any medium[1], is that tiny occurrances become really big. It's a matter of paying attention. Shufflephunk is a nice example. It's really stark but it works very well. Funky as hell and very energetic.
Groet, Erik
[1]I've seen several choreographies by korean choreographers. All were incredibly minimalist but very, very powerfull.
Later stuff and the records as Ritchie Hawtin seem to take a different approach and I like the minimalism (except for the Minus stuff, it seems to miss the point somehow).
The nice thing about minimalism, in any medium[1], is that tiny occurrances become really big. It's a matter of paying attention. Shufflephunk is a nice example. It's really stark but it works very well. Funky as hell and very energetic.
Groet, Erik
[1]I've seen several choreographies by korean choreographers. All were incredibly minimalist but very, very powerfull.
Pop music delenda est.
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- KVRAF
- 3964 posts since 31 Aug, 2003 from In a foreign town, in a foreign land
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- KVRAF
- 3191 posts since 20 Sep, 2004 from Atlanta
Exactly!tetraplan wrote: The nice thing about minimalism, in any medium[1], is that tiny occurrances become really big.
It is this point that a lot of folks miss if they "don't get" minimal music. It's easy to create minimal, but it's incredibly difficult to create good minimal.
I've not listened to all of the catalog, but Hawtin's "Consumed" is one of my fav works of this type.
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- KVRAF
- 3191 posts since 20 Sep, 2004 from Atlanta
Hey- it is a good time for tea and come to think of it...I do need some new t-shirts
great stuff, tetraplan! Thanks for sharing!
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
I like Consumed, although I swear it gives me a fever every time I listen to it. Maybe it's affecting my blood pressure or something. Other than that, I'm mostly indifferent to his work. Especially this last album, just wasn't my thing (hyper-calculated electro-cheese, maybe?).
However, I listen to minimalist stuff most of the time (in fact make it as well). One thing that does it for me is that you just sort of lose track of it as it plays. One of the key elements of music is memory, minimalism often attacks that sense. How do you remember a melody that took ten minutes to get through? For some reason I really respond to that kind of disorientation.
Like Erik mentioned, little events become big, but the opposite can hold true, everything might only make sense as a macro event.
However, I listen to minimalist stuff most of the time (in fact make it as well). One thing that does it for me is that you just sort of lose track of it as it plays. One of the key elements of music is memory, minimalism often attacks that sense. How do you remember a melody that took ten minutes to get through? For some reason I really respond to that kind of disorientation.
Like Erik mentioned, little events become big, but the opposite can hold true, everything might only make sense as a macro event.
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- Tunesmith
- 2889 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Toronto
are you from toronto?deggy wrote:Seeing as I disagree with a large amount of the things Rayner writes, I ignored it.
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- KVRAF
- 6496 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from Frederick, MD
Yes, and it's nearly impossible to quantify what makes a good minimal track. It has something to do with the artist's understanding of the subtle forces at work in a piece that allows him(her) to envoke an indefinable depth or completeness in mood with economy and grace.blortblort wrote:It's easy to create minimal, but it's incredibly difficult to create good minimal.
I have the greatest admiration for the talents of Richie Hawtin in all his guises. I have not heard his latest work but everything up to Consumed contains some very memorable works. You just have to accept that not everyone's going to get it. The worst problem I've had trying to get people to understand what he's doing is that you simply cannot give someone a few minutes of his music and expect them to grasp the genius of his work. To truly appreciate it, you have to approach it as you would a novel: listen slowly and in depth, just as if you were reading. You have to kind of live with it for a while and put aside your expectations for beat and melody . . . you have to try and find the gestalt of the work.
See, it's very hard to quantify minimalism!
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1143 posts since 6 Oct, 2004 from berlin
near byMr. Tunes wrote:are you from toronto?deggy wrote:Seeing as I disagree with a large amount of the things Rayner writes, I ignored it.
you?
Last edited by deggy on Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 6496 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from Frederick, MD
I think in Hawtin's specific case the choice is all about capturing and savoring a mood or musical flavor. It's not about change, it's about finding the right musical spot, sitting down and enjoying it. It's the musical equivalent to finding a scenic overlook and just hanging out for an extended time. It's about place rather than motion. It's about being there rather than getting there.deggy wrote:...I just don’t understand this aesthetic choice to write music that develops at such a slow rate.
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- Tunesmith
- 2889 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Toronto
I live in Vancouver now but yes I consider myself a Torontonian. I used to read Ben Rayner for years in the Toronto Star.
He has been in charge of reviewing all the relatively underground releases for years there. If he wasnt good he wouldnt have kept his post for this long but i think that people who are a part of the underground scenes are more critical of his work naturally.
He has been in charge of reviewing all the relatively underground releases for years there. If he wasnt good he wouldnt have kept his post for this long but i think that people who are a part of the underground scenes are more critical of his work naturally.
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- KVRAF
- 1981 posts since 26 Oct, 2003 from Toronto
I'm surprised he's so popular myself, not as a diss either. I learned about him maybe 5 years ago in a FM article, and the guys like in the next town over from me. Then I saw him interviewed on The New Music, and he's cruising around in a cherry BMW that I don't think was daddy's? So then I finally saw a video of his, and it was the most boring thing that would make Hugh LeCaines 'Dripsody' a #1 pop (drop?) hit today? But I think on the FM CD he had a cool groove track on it if I recall. Nothing special that any good KVR'er can't do today, and then this severe mood shift to do the most dead ambient boredom to show his verstility... And he gets a cherry BMW while vurt here has to buy his own skateboards still?
He's a cool guy, but I haven't heard anything that has made me go 'holy shit' yet.
He's a cool guy, but I haven't heard anything that has made me go 'holy shit' yet.
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- KVRian
- 581 posts since 15 Dec, 2003 from Hangin' out with my 5 year old
If music truly is "what happens between the notes", then Ritchie Hawtin may be our most prolific composer.
Why do I love it? Space, space, space -- his tracks feel like you could jump inside them and touch the notes -- feel their texture and timing, follow their evolution. If there was even one more element to it, it would ruin the entire effect.
Around Detroit we have this restaurant chain called "Mongolian Barbeque" where you essentially make your own dinner -- you add meats, veggies and spice to a big bowl and their cooks fry it for you on a giant wok. It's great fun, but the food is always terrible because everyone overloads their bowls with spices to the point that the meal itself has no basic flavor. Plastikman is nothing but basic flavor -- so pure for you to enjoy -- but too subtle for the listener who's pallete has been overwhelmed with spices.
If you would prefer a more "complex" meal be sure to check out his "Dimensional Intrusion" LP (made under the name F.U.S.E.).
Why do I love it? Space, space, space -- his tracks feel like you could jump inside them and touch the notes -- feel their texture and timing, follow their evolution. If there was even one more element to it, it would ruin the entire effect.
Around Detroit we have this restaurant chain called "Mongolian Barbeque" where you essentially make your own dinner -- you add meats, veggies and spice to a big bowl and their cooks fry it for you on a giant wok. It's great fun, but the food is always terrible because everyone overloads their bowls with spices to the point that the meal itself has no basic flavor. Plastikman is nothing but basic flavor -- so pure for you to enjoy -- but too subtle for the listener who's pallete has been overwhelmed with spices.
If you would prefer a more "complex" meal be sure to check out his "Dimensional Intrusion" LP (made under the name F.U.S.E.).
And all life's fears
Can invade my ears
I can handle it
Can invade my ears
I can handle it
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- KVRAF
- 6496 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from Frederick, MD
He heSteven West wrote:I'm surprised he's so popular myself...but I haven't heard anything that has made me go 'holy shit' yet.
I'm surprised he's so popular, too. Well, to be honest, he wouldn't be popular if it weren't for the fact that he made his name as a DJ. He's got a pretty unique and interesting approach to that. But I think the DJ cult status springboarded his career as an artist.
And, you won't hear anything by him that'll make you go 'holy shit' because it's . . . so . . . laid . . . baaaaaaaaaack. You might do a Keanu Reaves, though: "woah." But that'll probably only be after you've zoned out to his tunes for an hour and sudden realized you were getting into it.
Really, you have to be in the right mood and listen deeply. This isn't a wow you with great sounds or beats kind of music, it's all about head space and sinking into the overall sound. If you can't do that, this'll bore the hell out of you!