KVR Audio

Controller_C · Post by **Controller_C** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:20 am

I compressed a Pod Pro guitar track w/Pod Tremelo using the cubase "dynamics" plug-in compressor, the result was icky, pops and clicks n stuff that dissapeared after I turned compression off. Now I'm stuck because I really like the take but it needs to be compressed and already has tremelo, and like I dummy I didn't use the "Unprocessed Out" for a clean version of the take. Any way to compress a track with tremelo and not end up with garbage?

intel · Post by **intel** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:58 am

yes there is.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:39 am

As far as I know, generally you do record tremolo to tape. You don't have to, but think of all the tremelo takes from olden days, when they couldn't patch in an effect unit!

Anyway, you just need to cut down some pesky peaks? Pretty much any compressor will do it (I hate the Cubase Dynamics too). An easy and quick one is:

http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/sweetboy/Volcano/

Another quick one is Palancarware Brick...but their website is offline. Also try Kjaerhus Classic Compressor and Master Limiter. And Vanilla Compressor too. Or the Tbt Stuff. Lots to choose from.

If the guitar track is still giving you a hard time, try rolling of the high-end above 7k, see if that helps.

airborne · Post by **airborne** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:34 am

Sorry if I am a bit ignorant here but I would avoid compressing a guitar with tremolo part.
Compressing will undo/ruin the tremolo effect you have applied to the guitar.
After all tremolo is somehow dynamics changed periodically and by a certain amount.Why would you want to undo this?

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:56 am

Simply redo the take (and practice !!)

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:01 am

airborne wrote:Sorry if I am a bit ignorant here but I would avoid compressing a guitar with tremolo part.
Compressing will undo/ruin the tremolo effect you have applied to the guitar.
After all tremolo is somehow dynamics changed periodically and by a certain amount.Why would you want to undo this?

Hmmm...without hearing the track, I can't say for sure, but when I think "Tremolo", I think of the signal cutting out at regular intervals. Now if the source material still has dynamic peaks and valleys, it'll still have the same peaks & valleys, just with gaps. So there's no reason, I would think, that you'd couldn't spank the peaks a bit. If there are no annoying peaks, then don't bother!

Now, I'm just talking about mild compression to even things out. You'd have to really lean on a tremolo guitar to actually "undo" the effect. I think Controller_C might've been getting the clicks + pops from too strong compression settings, and/or the crappy attack of the Cubase Dynamics. I think mild compression or limiting might do the trick.

abi · Post by **abi** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:52 am

C00kie wrote:Simply redo the take (and practice !!)

that´s right

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:40 pm

abi wrote:
C00kie wrote:Simply redo the take (and practice !!)
that´s right

Jeez - doesn't anybody like a good mixing challenge around here??

Controller_C - did you ever get anywhere with this? I sure am curious about what it sounds like...

sangha · Post by **sangha** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:06 pm

airborne wrote:Sorry if I am a bit ignorant here but I would avoid compressing a guitar with tremolo part.
Compressing will undo/ruin the tremolo effect you have applied to the guitar.
After all tremolo is somehow dynamics changed periodically and by a certain amount.Why would you want to undo this?

Actually, it would depend on the settings of the compressor. If the threshold is set above the level of most notes (ie high enough to catch only the loudest notes) it won't affect their tremelo at all. And if the release is slow enough, the compressor won't be compressing and releasing, so the tremelo of the loud notes wont be affected either.

Controller_C · Post by **Controller_C** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:39 pm

bduffy wrote:
abi wrote:
C00kie wrote:Simply redo the take (and practice !!)
that´s right
Jeez - doesn't anybody like a good mixing challenge around here??

Controller_C - did you ever get anywhere with this? I sure am curious about what it sounds like...

Thanks everyone for taking the time. After posting this I remebered that my old SoundForge 5.0 came with Wave Hammer which is in my opinion better than Cubase Dynamics so I Installed Sound Forge5(I built a dedicated DAW not to long ago then got too busy to install all the apps) and ran the track through WaveHammer and it sounds better. Once I get a rough draft of the song I can post for others to hear and use feedback for the final version. Anyone know of a good book on Compression techniques?

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:29 am

bduffy wrote:
airborne wrote:Sorry if I am a bit ignorant here but I would avoid compressing a guitar with tremolo part.
Compressing will undo/ruin the tremolo effect you have applied to the guitar.
After all tremolo is somehow dynamics changed periodically and by a certain amount.Why would you want to undo this?
Hmmm...without hearing the track, I can't say for sure, but when I think "Tremolo", I think of the signal cutting out at regular intervals. .

That would be a square wave tremolo, but there are tremolo effects that are more like a ramp effect.

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:38 am

sangha wrote:Actually, it would depend on the settings of the compressor. If the threshold is set above the level of most notes (ie high enough to catch only the loudest notes) it won't affect their tremelo at all. And if the release is slow enough, the compressor won't be compressing and releasing, so the tremelo of the loud notes wont be affected either.

That's what I thought too (but couldn't put it to words like that

)... If you get pops and clicks you're using the wrong compressor settings...

In general if you use the compressor for dynamics control you want the threshold just above the average volume, to take effect only on the peaks. Then you can just play with the attack and release to get an unobtrusive effective sound.

Re: good books: Bob Katz, but also Bobby Owsinsky (Mixing Engineers Handbook). Very convenient as a package at amazon.com

. Katz covers the theory (not just compression though), and Owsinsky also contains lots of interviews with different mixing engineers descriving their views...

megumizooloo · Post by **megumizooloo** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:49 pm

Another option would be to use a limiter. Your really just going to have to play with settings until you get something that sounds like what your looking for.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:41 pm

Frippertronix wrote:
bduffy wrote:
airborne wrote:Sorry if I am a bit ignorant here but I would avoid compressing a guitar with tremolo part.
Compressing will undo/ruin the tremolo effect you have applied to the guitar.
After all tremolo is somehow dynamics changed periodically and by a certain amount.Why would you want to undo this?
Hmmm...without hearing the track, I can't say for sure, but when I think "Tremolo", I think of the signal cutting out at regular intervals. .
That would be a square wave tremolo, but there are tremolo effects that are more like a ramp effect.

Yeah, I know. Like I said, I don't know because I can't hear it, so I have to assume. I still think it would have to be a pretty damn subtle effect to be negated by a compressor, regardless of sine or square.

psychopractor · Post by **psychopractor** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:48 pm

there are certain applications that work. One thing I learnt from a Frank Zappa interview was to add compression AFTER flanging, because in his words 'it tends to go hog-wild at certain frequencies'.

Especially with high feedback levels. Moderate compression pulls those rebel frequencies into line, but I actually like taking a warm, analogue sounding compressor and being rather heavy-handed with it. Coupled with the flanging, it creates a thick, kludge texture I really like!

Though you have to watch the noise levels, since flanging seems to be inherently noisy. But it's a trade-off I am willing to take.

Would you ever add effects before compressing track?