june contest ... GOSSIP

[Ixox]

Thanks Hovmod and Xander for the reviews...

the thing with 4'33'' is that during a performance, there's always different noises, coughs, breaths, a child who cries, the life in action. Moreover, there is a silent relation between the pianist and the crowd. The crowd may react in some way to the situation.

i think Cage was requesting the crowd to "listen" to that particular reality. i'm not sure a "blank" mp3 is in a position to renew the whole experience, tho. it's really a performance, it needs the presence of the pianist and of a crowd, stopped for 4'33'' of "silence"... a kind of communion thing, if i dare...

That's right... 4'33" is all but silence.
100% Silence does not exist (at least on earth !).

At IRCAM there are silent rooms. You are supposed not to hear anything.
You realize that your body is very noisy : heart, breath....

[Wopelka]

I know this is old news, but these VST's seem very appropriate to this discussion

considering what i've just said before, the Dead Quietenator (what a strange - and expensive - plugin...) is the pure antithesis of Cage's attempt. eewww

[scamme]

the thing with 4'33'' is that during a performance, there's always different noises, coughs, breaths, a child who cries, the life in action. Moreover, there is a silent relation between the pianist and the crowd. The crowd may react in some way to the situation.

i think Cage was requesting the crowd to "listen" to that particular reality. i'm not sure a "blank" mp3 is in a position to renew the whole experience, tho. it's really a performance, it needs the presence of the pianist and of a crowd, stopped for 4'33'' of "silence"... a kind of communion thing, if i dare...

Exactly

Cannot be replaced with empty, 4'33'' timed mp3.
Those little sounds of life are very important to hear that is why to gather inspiration i put on ear plugs and chewing carrots (maybe that is my problem but i like it).

[Beardedone]

Beardedone - It's A Deal:

I always love Gordon's tracks, not just for their feel and originality, but also for the consistently great percussion. I'll vote this one high -- just a great feel and a real keeper.

Thanks so much Xander! I very much enjoy making this kind of music so it is a real bonus to know that some people like it.

As for the percussion, I can only say thanks to BFD!

Cheers,
Gordon

[You™]

I'm hosting mchlwlsn's track. Here it is:

Jongleur

[xander]

AndreasE - Melrock:

There is a consistancy in AndreasE's tracks that I like. In fact. they sound completely balanced in that I can take all his tracks direct to a CD without any normalizing. Thoughtful and evocotive tunes, as usual. This one sounds like an intro to 'Evil Dead' - The Game.

Thanks much for your nice comments, xander.

I must confess that I just wanted to remove my entry from the submission page because of all the annoying gossip of and about Lady J. But your nice words have kept me from doing this.

Man, I am very glad you stayed in. I thought maybe I'd get some reviews in there and also change the thread a bit. I hate that petty grumbling shite -- especially if it makes people want to leave.

As usual, of course, great work mate

[xander]

Beardedone - It's A Deal:

I always love Gordon's tracks, not just for their feel and originality, but also for the consistently great percussion. I'll vote this one high -- just a great feel and a real keeper.

Thanks so much Xander! I very much enjoy making this kind of music so it is a real bonus to know that some people like it.

As for the percussion, I can only say thanks to BFD!

Cheers,
Gordon

Gordon -- oh bearded type dude -- I thought you was using DR-008?? Am I wrong or is it you went and got 'big-time Gordon' and upped yerself to BFD?? (good choice then fer sure mate )

Listening to your last several tunes, it's true -- your percs are always to be enjoyed. If I could get my drums to sound a quarter that good I'd be called 'Smilin Jack' instead of 'Asynchronous Alex'...

[Beardedone]

Gordon -- oh bearded type dude -- I thought you was using DR-008?? Am I wrong or is it you went and got 'big-time Gordon' and upped yerself to BFD?? (good choice then fer sure mate )

Listening to your last several tunes, it's true -- your percs are always to be enjoyed. If I could get my drums to sound a quarter that good I'd be called 'Smilin Jack' instead of 'Asynchronous Alex'...

Yup BFD! I have only had it a few weeks and I am totally converted. There is nothing better for acoustic drums.

The thing to remember is that each project requires it's own perc/drum track. I do use reuse some grooves but the they almost edited and sonically treated according to the needs of the current project. The best approach is to play and/or draw in a new drum part every time. This can be tedious but it is always worth it.

Best,
Gordon

[emdot_ambient]

the thing with 4'33'' is that during a performance, there's always different noises, coughs, breaths, a child who cries, the life in action. Moreover, there is a silent relation between the pianist and the crowd. The crowd may react in some way to the situation.

i think Cage was requesting the crowd to "listen" to that particular reality. i'm not sure a "blank" mp3 is in a position to renew the whole experience, tho. it's really a performance, it needs the presence of the pianist and of a crowd, stopped for 4'33'' of "silence"... a kind of communion thing, if i dare...

Exactly

Cannot be replaced with empty, 4'33'' timed mp3....

Well, sounds to me like you're still not getting the piece. If you put on an MP3 of silence and all you hear is empty silence, then you still haven't opened your ears to what's going on around you. There is always sound to be heard, and Cage defined music as "sound heard."

4'33" does work much better in a concert environment, not because of the audience noises, but rather because a performer appears before the audience, sits at a piano and proceeds to count off rests on the score. See, this sets up the psychological expectation that the audience is going to hear "music." When it becomes clear to the audience that the piano player isn't going to play anything, they start asking themselves what this is all about. There are generally 3 conclusions that can result:

Conclusion 1: The composer is an intellectual toad and thinks this silent piece is really cool. This I call the "conceptual bullshit of the '60's" reaction.

Conclusion 2: The composer is a jokester and this piece is a comment on the emptiness in modern composition. This I call the "trickster" reaction.

Conclusion 3: The composer is pointing out that our own expectations block us from experiencing everyday sounds in an aesthetic light. This is, I think, Cage's true point.

Without the "performer" you don't have quite the same tension of expectation/experience but the same principle holds true: there is sound all around you at all times that can be aesthetically appreciated if you would only open your ears and mind to it. You don't need the MP3, or the performer or the 4'33" piece at all.

But, of course, it was entered in this month's competition as a lark. Or maybe to point out that nothing at all is better than commercial pap.

[Hovmod]

Emdot, Conclusion 3 is a subset of conclusion 1.

[emdot_ambient]

Emdot, Conclusion 3 is a subset of conclusion 1.

Only if you hold conclusion 3 in contempt.

I actually went to a John Cage concert. They didn't play 4'33" but they did make a lot of aweful noise with violins. I was able to force myself into hearing it as music for a few seconds, then decided I really didn't want to. But the Q&A afterwards with Cage was wonderful. He was a very wonderful and funny man. He said he had heard how loud music is bad for you so he purposefully went to a big rock concert, stuck his head in the bass cabinet and left it there for a couple dozen minutes. He said, sounding delighted, that he got to hear the music for the rest of the week

[Hovmod]

Cool, but the fact that something is cool for an instant, a while, or even decades doesn't rule out that it might be conceptual bullshit. Recently the urinal by Duchamp was named the most influential piece of art from the 20th century.
It's still a urinal, and it still needs you to take a full semester of art history to grasp the atmosphere in which it could have such an impact, which does not rule out - I'd say it quite proves - that it is conceptual bullshit.
Most of Frank Zappa's music, although I love it to bits, is CBS, too.
You don't have to hold it or the composer/artist/moron's explanation of it in contempt for it to be conceptual bullshit. If you need to have it explained, or it pleases you for other reasons than its surface value ("beauty", "harmony", [insert top-level value here]), it is conceptual BS in my opinion.
It doesn't have to imply that I don't like it, because maybe I DO know a lot about, say, 60's Rock'n'Roll tour bus behaviour, or French art in the early 1900s...

[xander]

Gordon -- oh bearded type dude -- I thought you was using DR-008?? Am I wrong or is it you went and got 'big-time Gordon' and upped yerself to BFD?? (good choice then fer sure mate )

Listening to your last several tunes, it's true -- your percs are always to be enjoyed. If I could get my drums to sound a quarter that good I'd be called 'Smilin Jack' instead of 'Asynchronous Alex'...

Yup BFD! I have only had it a few weeks and I am totally converted. There is nothing better for acoustic drums.

The thing to remember is that each project requires it's own perc/drum track. I do use reuse some grooves but the they almost edited and sonically treated according to the needs of the current project. The best approach is to play and/or draw in a new drum part every time. This can be tedious but it is always worth it.

Best,
Gordon

Roger that. Though it's tedious as you say, it's yours in the end.

I have entertained buying BFD, but am looking at Battery also (but Cheeses that damn Battery sure is expensive )

[Lady J]

With all this talk about John Cage and art such as "The Urinal" who'd have thought this month's theme was to submit the track to land you a Major Label record deal? :p

[You™]

Conceptual bullshit - maybe, but Cage was "covered" in one of these contests before - by that master of noise, the illustrious and prolific vurt in August of last year. That might make Cage one of the most covered artists in the monthly comp...

Here's vurt's version:

Silence

...and I did a cover of his version too:

Silence =  f(x +y + z)