FR - Cable tools (sample delay, etc)

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

hmmmmmmm.. I don't know if i like the delay knuckle thing... I don't like for anything to exist in the effect chain that i can't SEE.. So, if this were to be implimented, there NEEDS to be a visual distinction between a knuckle with no delay and a knuckle WITH delay..

Inserting a vst into a wire isnt a bad idea though.. Never saw any problem the way it is though...

On second thought .. How bout just leave ext the way it is and have jorgen expell his energy (no pun intended) on PDC!

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

On third thought:

How bout let jorgen focus on pdc to take care of your timing issue, but if we want the simplest solution to the "insert vst into wire" problem, just let the user be able to "select" a wire.. The same way we can select a comp... Then when you right click you can set its properties and/or add vst into chain.

Or maybe the user doesnt even have to select the wire but can just right click on it, and add into the path that way..

I'm not much for knuckles/curves unless im dealing with envelopes. Maybe i'm just a "linear" thinker.

Anyway: good thinking to whoever made this feature request!

[RChler]

good idea...perhaps better when it'd be "optional", so that you do not have unused Items in the environment which could steal precious resources i could feed another VSTi with...

[soma]

I really really really like to see a mouseover gain/pan x-y slider on the audio knukles.

I can wait for PDC instead of manual delay

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

I really really really like to see a mouseover gain/pan x-y slider on the audio knukles.

Yah, but imagine a complex routing in the main window with about 20 vsts... And your not getting signal out to main output for some reason... How many items do you have to "mouseover" before you figure out which one is causing the muting? ALOT! Like i said.. IF this were to be implimented (which i although i like the idea, there are still better ways), there would need to be A VISUAL distinction that does not require any mouse overs to see.

I can wait for PDC instead of manual delay

Me too!

[dln]

I really really really like to see a mouseover gain/pan x-y slider on the audio knukles.

The problem with having the wires themselves have actual properties (like gain) is that wires should be a "discrete" object and not carry a state of their own, e.g if you disconnect and reconnect two comps the user expects the resulting circuit to be the same.

Otherwise they're not wires, but some kind of (really skinny) comp/device, that's already alot more complex than just a line.
(This always bugged me about Buzz, BTW).

Just a $0.02 UI angle on the topic.

It would be much more logical to have gain/pan "trim-pots" on the i/o connecting ports on the comp themselves.

Personally, I'd rather use a mixer comp though. A routing matrix would make wiring alot easier too - "gain adjustment matrix", mixer subgroups and whatnot.

[dln]

I think that's a really good idea actually, you could double the 'knuckle' function to have the same graphic bezier curve function as the envelope track, so you could bend those cables into a neater looking affair.

A quick, crude, sketch on what it might look like:

The knuckle should probably be smaller, and the picture really depicts a worst-case scenario of crossing wires and so forth.

Anyway, just doodling some and thought i'd share some food for thought.

[4tune]

Some interesting points here from everyone. I can see why it would be beneficial to keep the cables as `passive` GUI elements rather than more active devices.

Maybe then a solution could be add the following to the cables:

- Dragging points for bezier curves. i.e. a small triangle.
- On the same dragging points you can also right click to insert a comp. Also you could have a modifier key that when you drag an existing comp over the triangle it becomes inserted there.
- For convenience sake maybe the the triangle could actually be pointing in the direction of data flow to help overview.


And maybe improve mixer inserts by:

-Adding gain headroom.
-Adding sample-delay.


Maybe add to all relevant comps including VST

- Horizontal pan and gain sliders in the top bar next to the fxb/p file browser.
- bypass (accesable in main window also)indicated by border colour change /greying out of comp.
-Maybe token metering on the comps in the main window. A flashing light when output is occuring, different colours for MIDI and audio.


disclaimer:
Mainly reitterating a lot of good ideas already in the thread

edit: nice demo of some knuckles also dln

[soma]

I really really really like to see a mouseover gain/pan x-y slider on the audio knukles.

Yah, but imagine a complex routing in the main window with about 20 vsts... And your not getting signal out to main output for some reason... How many items do you have to "mouseover" before you figure out which one is causing the muting? ALOT! Like i said.. IF this were to be implimented (which i although i like the idea, there are still better ways), there would need to be A VISUAL distinction that does not require any mouse overs to see.

And @ dln
Actually there aren't any new gain or pan properties created it is only a VERY convenient way to access the properties also shown in the mixer.
As far as finding the part in the signal where the mute is happening, you still have the problem now if you lower the volume on a mixer pot.
One solution could be to have a tinted LED on the receptor of every wire that changes color depending on the amplitude of the signal. if a receptor is not changing color you know it is not getting a signal. But really your ears will tell you if the signal is making it to that delay or that compressor Trust me.

Buzz used this system and it works very well.

[bmanic]

I think that's a really good idea actually, you could double the 'knuckle' function to have the same graphic bezier curve function as the envelope track, so you could bend those cables into a neater looking affair.

A quick, crude, sketch on what it might look like:

The knuckle should probably be smaller, and the picture really depicts a worst-case scenario of crossing wires and so forth.

Anyway, just doodling some and thought i'd share some food for thought.

I'd rather see Jorgen copy the SynthMaker way of doing curves. Much tidier when the "knuckle" is only seen when hovering with the mouse over the place it bends.

Some good suggestions here though. Another vote for the manual delay, volume/pan and the insert in between options for the knuckle.

- bManic

[dln]

I'd rather see Jorgen copy the SynthMaker way of doing curves. Much tidier when the "knuckle" is only seen when hovering with the mouse over the place it bends.

I second that. It'd make things much tidier.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

If you guys keep voting for the manual delay, and jorgen does impliment it, it is my guesse that he will be less apt to do PDC, because you allready have a workaround..> And whats the point of having him do something twice.. If he's just gonna go back and redo it the RIGHT way with pdc?
Plus that manual delay stuff will mess up the live tracks right?

[tjvigil66]

Personally, I like everything except for the curvey line bit.

[Maniah]

The knuckle idea could work. There would definitely have to be something like, if you were to click on a knuckle, the whole cable highlights showing where the "to" and "from" points are.

[soma]

Personally, I like everything except for the curvey line bit.

Yeah, looks don't really effect my music too much either. For me it's about having everything placed in a clear and convient place so that what I want to do comes natural.
Having a volume on a line that represents a signal just seems to be the best symbol for that object.