How do YOU feel about your music being pirated?

[Quaternion]

Where exactly did I say that I condoned piracy?

Where did I say that you condoned piracy?

It was a question, not a statement.

And stop whining. It changes nothing.

For the last time, I'm not whining.

Have you ever released music (other than mp3s)? If not, stop posting to this thread, because you are not even able answer the question in the topic.

[deggy]

I just wanted to stress the fact that I find this thread really upsetting. It’s one thing to have a few Jay-z, U2 or Abba tracks on your hard drive. We always joke about how these people have sooo much money and that a couple of illegal downloads won’t make any difference. However, the reality is that when somebody gets used to getting music for free, they often don’t discriminate between the rich and the poor. To me, I always would like to think that I view all theft as wrong. I don’t have a single pirated program on any of my computers. I bought it all. All of my plug-ins were bought at a store or online (many of which were purchased during a time in which I was earning minimum wage as well).

However, last Friday, I went to go check out one of my favorite new bands (one of the few newer bands – even though they’ve been around for years – that I really have gotten into recently), The Dears. I went with the group of friends who introduced me to the band a few years back. When I was there and checking out the merch table, I remembered that I all of my copies of all of their CDs were pirated. In fact, in the group that I was with (about 7 of us) only one of us owned one actual legit copy of only one of their albums. In fact, if I had to venture a guess, I would assume that at least half of the people at that sold out show probably had pirated at least some of their material. At the end of the show, the one of the keyboard players came out from behind her keyboards and kissed Murray (the lead singer). At this time, we could see that she looked at least a few months pregnant. Yup, both the mommy and the daddy were making a living from releasing music on their Canadian indie label and all of my friends and I had, in some way or another, stolen money out of the parents’ pockets. Needless to say that I bought the “End of a Hollywood Bedtime Story” e.p. this afternoon and it sounds so much better than the shite mp3s I had before.

I do own about 300 CDs, but I’ve pirated about 50 or 60 whole albums (most of which I never really listened to that much) but I’m really starting to realize the problems that are arising out of this whole piracy thing and I’m really taking it seriously now. I’ve spent my whole life studying music and I working on my second degree in music at this moment. Realistically, the amount of music related jobs is actually probably increasing but I’m sure that piracy is definitely lowering the average wage that people in this field can hope to earn. I’m sure I’ll have a big surprise when I’m trying to find a job in the future.

Finally, the thing that shocked me the most about this thread was that there are artists whom I really truly respect posting on this thread and I’m sure that this whole piracy thing has really hit them hard. Realistically, up until recently, I had a major problem with some dance music artists who would only release their music on vinyl but now that I’ve decided to get some SL-1200s, I will definitely be buying some vinyl to support the scene. With that said, there are at least two artists who have posted on this thread that I know of, who have had tracks pirated by friends of mine (not me of course as there’s no way in hell that I’d ever steal out of the pocket of a kvrer). However, I just wanted to say that the first vinyl that I’m gonna buy will be from these artists (so contrary to what has been posted before, this thread has made a difference, though probably a very small one at that). Now, I’m really happy that artists feel the need to create and grace us with their work but I agree that they should be properly compensated. And realistically, indie artists are probably pirated often as well due to the higher costs (per unit) that are associated with indie distribution. I just hope that in the future, a viable solution (like the artist selling their work directly from their website or itunes or something like that) will become more common because it really is the independents who suffer. I also want to encourage Vinyl only artists to find ways for their music to be available on CD (encourage indie labels to put out more compilations or put out whole mixed or non-mixed albums with tracks all by the same artist or things like that). Thanks for making such great music and for now, threads like this are also another good way to fight piracy.

[fjell_strom]

fjell_strom quoth

Check my post on page seven.

Now read what I said again. Carefully.

After carefully combing your post again, whyterabbyt, I come strangely away with the same reaction I had after having oh so haphazardly read it the first time (well spotted, by the way): parts of what you said I agree with, and parts I don't. And one of the parts I like least and find least relavant and partially clouding to the issue is you informing kaden that, if someone showed up and stole all his "real-life stuff", he would be up in arms.

[xoxos]

I read in a newspaper today that according to a new report by the OESO there is no evidence for a link between illegal downloading music and declining sales in the music-industry.

hey bro, WOW!!! it sounds like that paper is telling you the TRUTH

unelievable how in a capitalist society, sometimes they'll jsut come right out and tell you! "hey, they're skank"

dude, i suggest you keep buying that newspaper!!!!!


("but he just doesnt listen..")

[xoxos]

i apologise, i realise i am underestimating your intelligence..

of course you didn't BUY the paper, you just read it! LOL silly me

you keep READING that paper!

there! got it right

[shamann]

I'm not whining but asking for opinions from other musicians, how they feel about their music being pirated.

I didn't think anything was aimed specifically at you, just generally at those who adhere to a specific side of the argument.

Reselling implies that you bought it in the first place.

So does copying to p2p.

And for the last time: what about warez?

What about them? I don't use warez, just as I don't download songs from p2p. In accordance with the scripture of this temple, I won't speak to warez, except to say that the same problem exists there. It is a resource that can only be limited by decree, as there is nothing substantial that prevents someone from taking them illicitly. Are decrees the stuff ethics are made of? Maybe, but the legal mechanism that prevents warez was not always so, and is largely a mechanism of financial concern. Should our ethics be defined by financial concerns? Again, maybe, but is that how we wish to live?

Adapt or die.

Touché!

[whyterabbyt]

fjell_strom quoth

And one of the parts I like least and find least relavant and partially clouding to the issue is you informing kaden that, if someone showed up and stole all his "real-life stuff", he would be up in arms.

Its relevant to what I was talking about. Which was his attitude. His condemnation of a group people as whiners who should get used to it. Its very easy to have that attitude when its about something which doesnt concern you.

I think its pretty relevant indeed that in a slightly different basis many people would be highly concerned about their 'stuff' and yet, rather than empathise in any way, or take any kind of constructive approach, there's a response of 'stop whining, get over it'.

Which was nothing to do with a comparison between someone stealing real stuff and someone duplicating stuff. Nor was it a comparison between duplicating stuff and slavery, despite the rather shallow conclusion that it was made by yourself and shamman. Its about what people accept as fair and reasonable, and what kind of behaviour people will justify on those kinds of grounds. Like it or not, lots of bad things have been justified by those who carried them out. I find the 'tough, get over it' attitude to be morally distateful.
If you think that its fine, then we have a difference of opinion. But I wasn't saying anything of the type both you and shamman said I was, so please don't misrepresent my statement as such.

[Stupid American Pig]

All of you guys are still not realizing that selling records does not necessarily = money in the bands pocket. Deggy, by going to their show, you more than made up for using a burnt CD. That said, I dont condone or partake in downloading music P2P. When napster was still around, I used it to find out of print things I couldnt buy anymore, but since napster went offline, I havent downloaded anything. I do have some burned CDs, but I *will* buy the cd if I like it. If a friend hands me a burnt copy to check out some music, I will listen to it and decide if its worth buying, if not I wont buy it, and the cd gets trashed.

If you *do* download music, its yer call. I still think its funny that Metallica, Dr. Dre and Eminem are the bands that had the biggest problem with downloading, while indie bands that were scraping by encouraged it in some cases, since exposure leads to more people at your shows = more money.

[shamann]

Nor was it a comparison between duplicating stuff and slavery, despite the rather shallow conclusion that it was made by yourself and shamman. Its about what people accept as fair and reasonable, and what kind of behaviour people will justify on those kinds of grounds. Like it or not, lots of bad things have been justified by those who carried them out. I find the 'tough, get over it' attitude to be morally distateful.

If you think that its fine, then we have a difference of opinion. But I wasn't saying anything of the type both you and shamman said I was, so please don't misrepresent my statement as such.

But you just did again. You're saying that the reasons used to justify slavery by those who commited it can be likened morally to the reasons people use to justify copyright violation. I've re-read both posts and it is plain as day.

Debate rhetoric is well and fine, but scale is a factor of concern when dealing with these issues. Slavery is about the exploitation through force/hostility of other living beings. Copyright violation in no way results in the exploitation of another being, because at any time they can choose to stop. That's a big difference. Especially when copyright only protects one's freedom to profit. Profit isn't the stuff human rights are made of. Being able to profit is a nice thing to have when you live in a world such ours, but it just isn't the same thing as the right to live your life as yours.

[Homicidal_Dream]

Its crime..i do it and so do others but its still wrong i guess its just morals that have to lead you.

[deggy]

Have you ever released music (other than mp3s)? If not, stop posting to this thread, because you are not even able answer the question in the topic.

also, just to avoid this one before someone actually posts it, yeah I have appeared on some commercially released albums (one of which may be released by a major sometime soon possibly) but every time, I was either a session player (i.e. paid up front) or the release was such a small pressing that I didn't expect to see any profits. It doesn't affect me financially in any way if any of this stuff is pirated. Oh, and I have found almost all of the tracks from these releases on kazaa or winmx, but again it doesn't affect me. In fact, it's probably one of those unique situations in which piracy might help me get a small amount of exposure (with people of course still having no clue I was actually playing because they don't have the linner notes but that's alright i guess).

[Lady J]

the biggest problem musicians have had is that they don't have a strong union like actors.

thank god i get paid more than 15% for acting.

lady j, bless you, but you're a moron.

that's all the f**k we need - more unions and union-think to solve problems.

let's form groups, that will solve oppression! now all of a sudden some innocent peon just doing their thing isnt shit unless they're the official shit.

dont you see that's whats fucknig wrong about everythnig, except, no, you dont, because you're a fucknig wind up robot designed to go around telling everyone how you're the progressive thinker but you love groups and doctors and forms and official shit like a dumb piece of shit.

God bless you xoxos for putting me in my place. If i weren't engaged you'd be exactly the kind of guy i'd be looking for.

thaks for holding my life up to a dumb piece of shit and saying "hey! make your life have meaning by giving it reference to this! we need more shit comparison!"

But without comparison do we know what is shit? don't some things NEED to be official?

f**k that. we dont need no stinking badges, and until the f**k you 'civilised' people can accomodate your way of life to the GREATER LARGER way of life of not looknig everything up from Central like a pussy then we are all truly, truly f**ked beyond belief.

Well that settles it then. I am 'civilised' and have a pussy therefore I don't count and should not want to be official.

hehe

[Barf]

I read in a newspaper today that according to a new report by the OESO there is no evidence for a link between illegal downloading music and declining sales in the music-industry.

hey bro, WOW!!! it sounds like that paper is telling you the TRUTH

unelievable how in a capitalist society, sometimes they'll jsut come right out and tell you! "hey, they're skank"

dude, i suggest you keep buying that newspaper!!!!!


("but he just doesnt listen..")

So what IS your point?

[Quaternion]

Reselling implies that you bought it in the first place.

So does copying to p2p.

Not exactly. Reselling the original will not result in duplicating itself.

Should our ethics be defined by financial concerns? Again, maybe, but is that how we wish to live?

Sure, you got a point, but who's "we"? As you can see there's already a manifold of views here in this community, and society in general is a struggle of interests.

[Hink]

about my music being pirated...I dont want anything done too me I wouldn't do to someone else. Therefore I would not appreciate it being pirated....that being said, 90% of my music is about my gi-tar style. My style is pretty well defined afterall these years and either you like it or not, my tunes are free at soundclick...but the fact is, for me the best part of music is creating it, the best part of creating it for me is playin my gi-tar...that can't be pirated...