How do YOU feel about your music being pirated?

[Amberience]

Although let me add, that's just my own warped idealism. I realise it could never be that way, because it already has happened. Once something that big of a change happens (IE: the formation of the music industry and its currency value) it can never be removed.

There are too many people who rely on the music industry to live productive lives (not just the people who work in it, but the fans too) and to take it away would kill some part of thousands, if not millions, of people - hearts, minds, wallets, and souls.

[tetraplan]

I am daring anyone to think a little differently here. Consider that without the music industry, there would be no broken dreams and no fake pedastals, there would only be the music and people who value it for the music's sake and not the money.

"Attachment leads to suffering"
Some dude, long time ago

This concludes tonight's program,

Groet, Erik

[tetraplan]

yes, translates fine.

OK, thanks.

Groet, Erik

[Amberience]

"Attachment leads to suffering"
Some dude, long time ago

Yeah but it seems some ego's need things over-complicating so they can understand it - y'know, the whole "wow! I understand, that means I'm a clever robot!" syndrome.

[BONES]

When the best y'all can do is wrap your artistically important selves in righteous indignation and wail 'But I wrote a SONG...It's VALUABLE!! YOU"RE SUPPOSED TO PAY MEEEEEE...YOU"RE STEEEEEALING', then you deserve *exactly* the future that awaits you.

Like I said, I couldn't give a rat's arse for myself, I am far more concerned about our label and the effect it has on those very nice people who have worked their arses off and spent a lot of their own money to get our albums out and in the public eye. I would be quite happy to have them plough all our royalties into the production/promotional costs of the next album if it ensured that there would be a next album.

It is very much not stealing, and drawing parallels to someone routing an apartment, or lifting a loaf of bread or an onion or any of the other ridiculous objects which have been refered to by name cannot hold their stock. Why? Because what is being done by the perpetrators of "music piracy" is quite literally DUPLICATING, and while the difference my be very tenuous - and it is - skirting the issue by calling stealing and duplicating both by the same name simply does not hold water. In the case of stealing, outright stealing, something is diminished by the act of taking from it, either from a person or from a supply of something. In the end, in the case of stealing, the thief has diminished the supply of property from which he or she stole. When a person duplicates, I know it nearly goes without saying, but a person has actually multiplied the supply of something. Has has actually increased the amount of that thing. There are more of them at the end than when he began.

Duplicating cannot so easily be lumped into the same camp as stealing. Stealing is always illegal and will forever be a very personal afront.

Of course its f**king stealing, as sure as plagiarism is stealing. Just because they aren't walking into CD shops and removing your discs from the shelves doesn't mean dick. They are taking money out of your pocket and out of the pocket of the label that has worked so hard on your behalf to get your CD into shops in the first place.

You might instead ask me how I would feel if someone came to my apartment and made a perfect copy of everything I own, including personal things. I assure you I would have quite a different reaction to this than to someone quite literally removing it all.

What if you had designed all the pieces yourself, spending countless hundreds of hours meticulously making hand-crafted originals and then was walking down the high street one day and saw cheap, Chinese knock-offs of all your work for a few bucks/quid/euro, all with shoddy workmanship?

Wankers. You wrote a song, on spec, and assume it has economic value. Sorry, dudes (and dudettes)...what makes you so freakin' special that you expect every single piece of creative output you do to automatically be worth money?

You are making several false assumptions. First, very few of the songs I have written have ever been heard by anyone outside audiences as gigs. Secondly, I don't put any value on a song of mine ro anyone else's.. Third, I don't care at all about making money from my music.
I don't buy singles or compilations because they are simple commoditites with little interest for me. I buy albums because they are a package with considerable appeal on many different levels. P2P threatens the future, not just of the "industry", but of the form that has value to me and a great many other music-lovers. It reduces music to a simple, tradable commodity. it shows that people like you see it in exactly the same way that the greedy record company executives do and that is very, very sad.

Prior to the invention of copyright laws, was it unethical to sing someone else's song without crediting the songwriter? I can see how churches the world over were racked with guilt over the lack of accreditation on their hymnbooks all those centuries.

But at least I could have gotten away with going around to their place and beating them and their server half to death with a pick handle back then.

And what about reselling LPs or CDs? Unethical? If I resell a CD, you as a musicmaker see no reward from the transaction, nor have any control over what I do with it.

Works for me, at least they are getting the whole package as teh artist intended. Again, you are just looking at the commerce of it, your view totally devalues the work.

Please show me where copyright appears in Amnesty International's list of human rights violations, and how p2p has wrought high degrees of human suffering. Equating human life with the right to profit from music is pretty sad.

Pleasr show me where Amnesty International became the arbiter of right and wrong.

Slavery was a holocaust and you dont see people comparing Kazaa to Hitler do you?

Again, its just a matter of degree. Its the same justification as "I killed 'em quick an dpainless, they didn't suffer at all." Does that make you less than a murderer, or just not as bad a murderer as Ted Bundy?

Adapt or die...reality sucks sometimes, but it's still reality. Getting pissed off won't help, not will lamenting the good old days. Like it or not, right or wrong, the system has changed...your response to this change is the issue, not the reason for the change.

And the reality is that it is stealing and people need to come to that awareness. What is not needed is for moronic dildos like you to say that its OK to steal and that we should all move on now that the thing we love dearly is circling the drain. If its alright with you, I still think I can do some good by sticking my hand in.

With even fewer listeners. Brilliant idea. If that's the size of audience you feel your music merits, then I wholeheartedly endorse your proposal.

I don't care about the size fo my audience, I care about the future of commercially released CD albums. Not just mine but those I will want to buy in the future, all of which are threatened by the immoral and illegal practice of file-sharing. Again you are showing that your attitude is exactly the same as the record company fat-cats.

Has anyone thought about the fact that downloading is a lot more eco friendly than CD's?

So is genocide and mass sterilization. What's your point?

Oy gevalt...do you guys think in stereotypes all the time, or just on music related issues? If the size of your audience doesn't matter, why worry about the manner by which your music is disseminated? Just to have a piece of vinyl in your hand?

I realise I'm picking on all of you rposts fro the same reason but I'll say it again - I have no interest in downloding MP3's of anyone. I want to be able to buy CD's of artists' work because that is the core of my interest in music. It is a far more significant thing than just some compressed file with a name that shows up in Windoze Exporer.

A car cost loads of money to manufacture. If you copied it then it would still cost a lorra, lorra cash. But music costs virtually nothing to reproduce. Just the initial outlay to create and market it plus the price of a CD. So in effect the only cost music accrues is the initial outlay whereas every car is expensive to manufacture. I don't see how the manufacture of physical goods can be compared to intellectual property like music.* There is no comparison.

So you don't understand how brand names are affected by cheap Asian knock-offs? It is the perfect analogy. Someone works hard to build a reputation for their brand only to have some dodgy factory in Indonesia come along and make exact duplicates, except of lower quality, which are sold for one-tenth the price. Police forces have entire task-forces to track those operations down, why shouldn't the musical equivalent be seen in the same light? After all, they do it all the time when its about illegal pressed CD's and DVD's, it just seems to go into the too hard basket when its on-line infringements.
You can justify it all you want but the simple fact is that making copyrighted material available on P2P is illegal in most of the world and immoral everywhere. That's why I think its great that the RIAA and ARIA has made people take personal responsibility for their actions, much as we all do when we get caught speeding. I just wish they would do a whole lot more of it, hopefully it might sink in.

[munchkin]

Although let me add, that's just my own warped idealism. I realise it could never be that way, because it already has happened. Once something that big of a change happens (IE: the formation of the music industry and its currency value) it can never be removed.

There are too many people who rely on the music industry to live productive lives (not just the people who work in it, but the fans too) and to take it away would kill some part of thousands, if not millions, of people - hearts, minds, wallets, and souls.

But you have a point. Music has become a commodity. Whether we like it or not (in my case, 'not'.) And we are obliged to work with this fact but it seems that some people here can't get used to the changes that the internet has brought to music distribution. This is ironic considering it's a reality that won't go away.

[Amberience]

Although let me add, that's just my own warped idealism. I realise it could never be that way, because it already has happened. Once something that big of a change happens (IE: the formation of the music industry and its currency value) it can never be removed.

There are too many people who rely on the music industry to live productive lives (not just the people who work in it, but the fans too) and to take it away would kill some part of thousands, if not millions, of people - hearts, minds, wallets, and souls.

But you have a point. Music has become a commodity. Whether we like it or not (in my case, 'not'.) And we are obliged to work with this fact but it seems that some people here can't get used to the changes that the internet has brought to music distribution. This is ironic considering it's a reality that won't go away.

Exactly. You gotta move with the times otherwise you're going to be swept aside like a broken toy. If you don't acknowledge that the internet has changed things, then you're going to be a very unsuccessful artist/money slut/cabbage patch doll.

[munchkin]

Well BONES I think you're in the wrong job. The RIAA are teaming up with Shell and issuing tasers to their security staff. Down with those hippie, tree hugging, downloadin', mofo, pinko commies!

[Jesse J]

I think it serves me right to be pirated as I live in a country that rob most of the rest of the world of everything they have.

Why would people have to obey rules when goverments and companies don't?

Last time I checked there were 11.000 copies of my songs available on P2P networks.

Should P2P networks be considered as public librarys? I mean I don't have to buy books, I can read them anyway. Also I can hear songs from the radio for free.

I don't get paid when I work my ass off. It pisses me off.

I'm confused how to feel about music piratism. It sucks, but there are far more worse things on this planet that suck much more. I guess we have to deal with those things first.

[kaden]

What is not needed is for moronic dildos like you to say that its OK to steal

Yanno, I just this second realized that you're actually not very bright.

I have *never* stated that it's ok to steal. Not once, ever.

I *have* stated that whining about stealing accomplishes nothing in the currently fluxing state of the music industry.

Regardless of 'how', the reality we're all living with is that change has occurred. How do you plan on successfully reacting to this change?

Yeah...I know... "But it's STEEEEEALING'."

Get over it. Things changed. Wasn't my fault...wasn't *anyone's* fault.

IT JUST f**king HAPPENED.

like it happened to the buggywhip industry, the door-to-door ice delivery trade, and telegraph operators.

Now we have to live with it, and the best you can come up with is "But it's STEEEEEALING."

Great. True creativity combined with a solid grasp of the big picture. You're an inspiration to us all.

Lemming.


K

[vurt]

i have "blackbeard" guest vocalling on a track is this what you mean by piracy in music?

[Cabinfever]

so kaden, if its ok to use 'duplicated' mp3s because 'that's the way it is', what about other software ?

is it also ok to use 'duplicated' (ie warez) versions of synths and hosts ?

if not then then i'm very interested to know how you make the ethical distinction.

[herodotus]

[Hink]

does no one take pride in honor anymore?

[vurt]

in the fight against music piracy i put my own stuff on p2p networks under titles like "maddonas new album" or "britney" the amount of people who downloaded a 72 minute sine wave instead of oops i did it again made me chuckle