2 - True too, I hope for you that your host does have some kind of Composer like found in eXT's MIDI parts.
It's about the workflow
-
- KVRist
- 402 posts since 15 Oct, 2004 from Breizh (Brittany), Europe
1 - Exactly, the Layer will set the rules that will apply to the contained Slicer.
2 - True too, I hope for you that your host does have some kind of Composer like found in eXT's MIDI parts.
2 - True too, I hope for you that your host does have some kind of Composer like found in eXT's MIDI parts.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I dunno if it's the same as eXT's, but it's pretty simple. Click a note, "select all notes in clip" and set velocity to whatever value I need, which sets all of the selected notes to that value.
Should do the trick just fine.
Greg
Should do the trick just fine.
Greg
-
- KVRian
- 1256 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Seattle/Oklahoma
of course...I can't help but respond to the "workflow couldn't be easier comments", though.
I only saw your post and thought I could answer some questions you were struggling with. I'd prefer you make some "FR" threads about your problem...but it seemed you were directing your message to me like it will make a difference...or that I care about your opinions.I only offer it as a way of explaining why I continue to feel, even after this tutorial, that eXT has very little workflow for the average dude (me). So, disclaimers aside, here are my opinions:
It's not necessary to delete it....it does no harm, and is probably there to help beginners like yourself understand that "layers go in this space"- Since the initial layer isn't needed, why is it defaulted? Who would know to delete it at the beginning?
well it should be "obvious and documented" now- It's not obvious or documented that the "root note" will play back the entire loop, synced. It seems like-- the root note! Now, when you actually slice the beat, it's clear which note matches to which slice, but it's still NOT clear where that supposed root note went to, that sneaky little pest.... Now, that's just splitting hairs, because regardless of where it may or may not have gone, exporting the MIDI would still set you up with correct playback.
....and "root note" is taken directly from my post....in the sampler you will see it's called "source"...happy now? (see I can split hairs too) 
And why are you directing these issues you have to me... :/ I can only offer apathy...It works for me, but I didn't design the damn thing.- What the hell is the note selection box doing over THERE, though? As I said, once you know where it is, it's obvious, so it's not a concern. But before it was pointed out to me, I kept thinking it should have been there in the same area on the left, where the slicers/layers are listed, and also that there should have been a right-click menu or slider on that same area that would allow you to set root. The root should also be displayed and editable RIGHT NEXT TO those layers, just like once the loop gets sliced. Why not be able to click and drag the note assignment right there? (Ie. where it says "slice (C#)" why not be able to set the "C#" to whatever else? And then above that where it says "Slicer", why not have a root assignment box?)
It may be tough to remember back that far, or you may have been lucky enough to have seen that little root-note-setting window right away, but let's face it-- it's really not in the most intuitive spot at all, and I wasted a lot of time looking for it. Why so much time? Because usually a slice (rather than the whole slicer) would be selected while I was looking, which is no surprise since my first thought wasn't to set a root but to drag a loop. And once a loop is dragged, it is highlighted as a slice and the little root-setting-box disappears. That's anti-workflow.
...like the rest of XT the sampler component is under constant development....jorgen could keep working on only the sampler component for years, and still always have thing to add/tweak....but it's only a small part of what XT has to offer...alot of users already have a sampler they are happy with...and while jorgen spent alot of time on the sampler, there was a considrable amount of bitching by users who wanted him to move on to other things...but he's stated many times he has alot of plans for the sampler component....but I think it's a great thing for him to release it and let us work with it a while, to find out what's missing....and he can build on it based on our Feature requests.You can't be serious....that's just silly...do you use a controller?- The MIDI learn for root assignment isn't really useful, so that hardly counts toward workflow points.
You will need to hold the Ctrl button while you drag-n-drop in 1.29....sorry I meant to say that(I did remember you said you had 1.29)...FWIW the current version would probably be fine for you....it's got a nice "Save ALL" feature in the sampler....and I gather your not gonna be using the sequencer anyway, and that's where most of the "bugs" are at this time(It has undergone some MAJOR changes recently). You will also gain the added "resizable" CC Maping dialogs, improved docking, and a number of other general enhancements. ...- Regarding dragging the export button - that option was not available in the 1.29 stable release, which means that somebody needs to be using beta software in order to have that functionality. I have to use "SMF" and then manually select directories, followed by dragging and dropping from Explorer for it to work.
I can't agree...I find this product pretty comfortable and straight forward...for me the best fit yet since I left Logic(maybe that tells you something) nobody has written any tutorials for me and I get along I guess...I'm definately not the "Linear" type. I know many other users here feel the same. Sure there are things which can/will/are being improved...I'm still relying on other hosts for a few tasks(although I could easily get by with XT alone, not too many years ago it I had alot less) but I've become more of a technology slave since then....but I also try to keep things in perspective....and it rubs me a bit wrong to see a user with such nitpicking criticisms of a 39 euro tool which offers what XT does. Surely posting some "FR" threads would be a good idea if something really seems to bother you about the program.That's just the beginning, when you actually CAN say that if you're familiar with eXT, the workflow isn't so bad. Although I'm disagreeing still (and hopefully explaining why), I'm willing to admit that since I now see where the things are assigned, it'd be a quick procedure up until this time. My original point, though, was that I shouldn't have had to research in order to find those buttons... they should have been in a manual (which I really think is necessary for this product), in a "helpfile", tooltips (well, I usually hate tooltips, so maybe not), or even just by having a more thought-out layout and design.
I didn't...but I have nothing to complain about that hasn't already been noted by jorgen.Moving along, though, you really can't claim the rest is easy for workflow:
"Multi" is short for MultiTimbral which means the instrument can playback multiple(usually 16) channels with different instruments/patches....this is pretty common among samplers...Kurzweil, EMU, AKAI, Kontakt...all have used the term "Multi"- Why do I have to enable "Multi" again? What IS a multi? Why isn't it enabled by default if it's important?
I guess if someone has never used samplers before or if they are not familiar with Multitimbral instruments and MIDI channels it wouldn't be clear...but it was obvious to me from the time I saw it.(in my mind I heard a voice that said "click the shiny button")however-- surely you can see how the whole "Multi" thing wouldn't have been immediately obvious, and nor would knowing I had to go through a whole other set of menus just to trigger 2 samples with different channels be obvious.
sample accuracy- Since I'm already on the subject and not to start a new thread with a new whine-- what's with the teeny tiny edit windows? The loop overview is basically good for one thing-- telling us that the loop has, in fact, been sliced, and allowing us to select individual slices. If that's all it's meant for then fine. Then the individual slice windows at the bottom of the comp-- can anybody really use those to set start and end points with anything resembling precision?
...They work absolutely great...larger windows, yes It's been requested, although the only thing I miss is maybe verticle zooming...I'm much quicker in this setup than I was on my K2000....it takes some practice, but the zooming and navigating work really well...perhaps I should do another "walkthrough"wow....sounds like it's just not for you....I have a completely opposite viewpoint.As it stands, eXT feels like (whether or not it actually IS isn't relevant... I can only say how it feels to me) a collection of haphazardly thrown-together elements, which do not present the power of the program in an inviting, intuitive, or sometimes even 'sensical' way.
I'm almost willing to bet you'll almost never be happy with XT and it's not gonna be what you want for a very long time...only speculating based on your gripes(I can only imagine what you would come up if you were attempting to use it to it's full potential).But there's the rub, eh?-- it's such a hugely useful program that it still consistently begs to be used, offers new functionality (or "New to me!" functionality that was in place but never tapped into), and provides a slough of great tools. I'd like to see the interface improved dramatically, but in the meantime I'm not giving up on it yet.
Now this may all seem very agressive to you...maybe I'm only stirred up because I recently quit smoking, and if you consider my username you will realize that's a major change for me. Or maybe it's the fact that the company I work for was just bought out by a Canadian company and I've suddenly found myself losing all my benefits and my job :/
Also I really feel your message didn't need to be so directed towards me, and perhaps it wasn't meant to be...but if it was, it's possible you weren't aware that I get very defensive when it comes to XT
....plz don't hurt my feelings. nF
-
- KVRian
- 1256 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Seattle/Oklahoma
my XT KungFu is better than yoursLunch Money wrote:I'm curious about how you managed to get it to work bug-free, NicFit.
...but seriously I did have one gui bug(I'm running multiple monitors also)...the XT gui just went blank and I had to reopen the project...this is clearly related to the XT/Tracktion combination, the same as the browser reset bug....neither has ever happened to me when using XT inside any other host.
nF
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Well, I guess I'm directing my comments at you in general because we're the ones engaged in a conversation about it, but I always assumed that Jorgen would likely read a thread entitled "It's about the workflow" and be able to see the discussion, too.
If he ONLY checks threads that say "FR" or "BR" then I suppose I could repost some of this.
To address a few of the things mentioned:
It's not that "Multi" is an unfamiliar concept, it's just that one would sort of assume as one adds layers that it's already by default a multi-layer, multi-timbral instrument?!? Why should one have to enable it in a separate area and then go through some really weird menu assignments just to make it 'multi'. That's the sort of thing that the OTHER samplers do by default-- they don't need to have their layers separately enabled. That was my point.
The buttons are too small and sometimes in the wrong place. The thing is, you're savvy enough to think, "OK, there's no way Jorgen would do this without a root note assignment somewhere... now where is it... <click> "nope, not there"... <click>... "aha, there it is!", whereas I was thinking, "OK, I should be able to set the root note over here." Nope. "What? Where the hell would it be then?" <click>... <click>... but meantime foolishly not scanning the entire page each time, since I would expect it to be near the layers/slicers/sub-sounds area.
Regarding the loop-point settings-- I do understand how to navigate it to sample-level, but the little window is too small to do anything accurate with it. It's the visual representation that's too fiddly. When you're going to THAT level of resolution, a small and pixellated box isn't helpful.
Regarding defensiveness-- no need to worry about that. I get the same way when people don't understand or get along with Tracktion.
I agree with you, though-- if eXT continues to have this kind of GUI, I will NEVER truly love it. It's just to painful for me to sort through so many menus and try to uncover so many fiddly little buttons. Frankly, it's downright aggravating most of the time.
HOWEVER, just because I'll never truly love it as a sequencer in its current form doesn't mean I don't boggle at its power and want to tap into it and use it as one of my most powerful tools. I continue wanting to learn about it in spite of it's (in my opinion) mid-level interface, and with your (and other users, like Jens') patience and help, I'll get there, and eventually maybe I'll even finally 'get' the interface and begin asking fewer questions.
Greg
If he ONLY checks threads that say "FR" or "BR" then I suppose I could repost some of this.
To address a few of the things mentioned:
It's not that "Multi" is an unfamiliar concept, it's just that one would sort of assume as one adds layers that it's already by default a multi-layer, multi-timbral instrument?!? Why should one have to enable it in a separate area and then go through some really weird menu assignments just to make it 'multi'. That's the sort of thing that the OTHER samplers do by default-- they don't need to have their layers separately enabled. That was my point.
The buttons are too small and sometimes in the wrong place. The thing is, you're savvy enough to think, "OK, there's no way Jorgen would do this without a root note assignment somewhere... now where is it... <click> "nope, not there"... <click>... "aha, there it is!", whereas I was thinking, "OK, I should be able to set the root note over here." Nope. "What? Where the hell would it be then?" <click>... <click>... but meantime foolishly not scanning the entire page each time, since I would expect it to be near the layers/slicers/sub-sounds area.
Regarding the loop-point settings-- I do understand how to navigate it to sample-level, but the little window is too small to do anything accurate with it. It's the visual representation that's too fiddly. When you're going to THAT level of resolution, a small and pixellated box isn't helpful.
Regarding defensiveness-- no need to worry about that. I get the same way when people don't understand or get along with Tracktion.
I agree with you, though-- if eXT continues to have this kind of GUI, I will NEVER truly love it. It's just to painful for me to sort through so many menus and try to uncover so many fiddly little buttons. Frankly, it's downright aggravating most of the time.
HOWEVER, just because I'll never truly love it as a sequencer in its current form doesn't mean I don't boggle at its power and want to tap into it and use it as one of my most powerful tools.
I continue wanting to learn about it in spite of it's (in my opinion) mid-level interface, and with your (and other users, like Jens') patience and help, I'll get there, and eventually maybe I'll even finally 'get' the interface and begin asking fewer questions. Greg
-
- KVRAF
- 7316 posts since 7 Mar, 2003
Everyone has their own opinions on what XT is like and how functional it is.
I think the GUI is excellent. The placement of things doesn't put me off, and I personally find it very intuitive.
But thats me.
I think the GUI is excellent. The placement of things doesn't put me off, and I personally find it very intuitive.
But thats me.
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I shouldn't have used such strong language-- it's not horrible or god-awful.
But there are many ways in which the GUI could become MORE consistent and intuitive.
(plus, some parts just plain old bigger.)
Greg
But there are many ways in which the GUI could become MORE consistent and intuitive.
(plus, some parts just plain old bigger.
)Greg
-
- KVRAF
- 11381 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
Well, Lunch Money, I for one agree with you nearly 100%. eXT is and has always been IMHO a very powerful tool but with only a mediocre workflow/UI (think button/slider/tools/menu placement/logic) at best. It kind of reminds me of the Logic 3.xx days.. powerful as hell but totally convoluted in the way you want to do even simple things.
Certain really basic and simple things are missing/working very "old school" like (aka, been dropped by all other sequencers already many years ago due to clumsy workflow).
These two things bother me the most right now:
- Dragging of loop area instead of single click. I find it truly ridiculous that a dragging, aka real-time update of loop area while right/left mouse button is held, is missing. Single clicking makes it extremely difficult to hit the exact place you want the loop at. It's totally counter intuitive to have to click 10's of times just to hit the correct spot with the mouse instead of simply dragging the loop marker area and seing the area update in realtime and have a total visual reference backed up by the waveform view. I use this fine tuning of "editing area" a LOT during editing and loop tuning.
- Multiple use of the STOP button in sequencer is missing. Aka, the first time you click STOP it resets to the loop end (if the play cursor has gone past it), second time to the loop start, third time to beginning of song. A very simple thing but so nice if you need to return to certain locations quckly without access to a keyboard (using optical mouse at certain distances while recording etc).
Note, these are VERY simple things and not really relevant to 95% eXT users (which is probably why it ain't being addressed right now, I know it's on the list FR list though which is nice) but to a guy like me that has quite a lot of different projects going on and a lot of editing work to be done, they bug the hell out of me.
eXT's sequencer is one of those "amazing potential but right now a very rough diamond!" kind of things. It could be totally revolutionary and be the best thing since sliced bread if some truly ergonomic design genious could have a look at the software and give jorgen some clues (ergonomics IS a truly important art form.. anybody who works with audio editing/recording/mixing or any other branch of pro-software, knows this!).
Jorgen's focus in the next major version is apparently workflow which is the update I look most forward to.. before that I'm affraid eXT is just a fancy tool with lots of possibilities but one that I don't fully enjoy using yet. I'm sure this will change someday!
Cheers!
bManic
Certain really basic and simple things are missing/working very "old school" like (aka, been dropped by all other sequencers already many years ago due to clumsy workflow).
These two things bother me the most right now:
- Dragging of loop area instead of single click. I find it truly ridiculous that a dragging, aka real-time update of loop area while right/left mouse button is held, is missing. Single clicking makes it extremely difficult to hit the exact place you want the loop at. It's totally counter intuitive to have to click 10's of times just to hit the correct spot with the mouse instead of simply dragging the loop marker area and seing the area update in realtime and have a total visual reference backed up by the waveform view. I use this fine tuning of "editing area" a LOT during editing and loop tuning.
- Multiple use of the STOP button in sequencer is missing. Aka, the first time you click STOP it resets to the loop end (if the play cursor has gone past it), second time to the loop start, third time to beginning of song. A very simple thing but so nice if you need to return to certain locations quckly without access to a keyboard (using optical mouse at certain distances while recording etc).
Note, these are VERY simple things and not really relevant to 95% eXT users (which is probably why it ain't being addressed right now, I know it's on the list FR list though which is nice) but to a guy like me that has quite a lot of different projects going on and a lot of editing work to be done, they bug the hell out of me.
eXT's sequencer is one of those "amazing potential but right now a very rough diamond!" kind of things. It could be totally revolutionary and be the best thing since sliced bread if some truly ergonomic design genious could have a look at the software and give jorgen some clues (ergonomics IS a truly important art form.. anybody who works with audio editing/recording/mixing or any other branch of pro-software, knows this!).
Jorgen's focus in the next major version is apparently workflow which is the update I look most forward to.. before that I'm affraid eXT is just a fancy tool with lots of possibilities but one that I don't fully enjoy using yet. I'm sure this will change someday!
Cheers!
bManic
-
- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Woah, just detected your slicing tutorial, NicFit... amazing! Freaking amazing!
Now I need to fool around with it a bit more.
(Is there any option to easily replace individual slices? Preferably with realtime preview?)
Now I need to fool around with it a bit more.
(Is there any option to easily replace individual slices? Preferably with realtime preview?)
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Who, me? Well:
a) there WAS no stretch function when this was written
b) I WAS looking to use it simply as a beatslicer within Tracktion
Time passes... things change... Have a look at the date of the original post.
a) there WAS no stretch function when this was written
b) I WAS looking to use it simply as a beatslicer within Tracktion
Time passes... things change...
Have a look at the date of the original post. -
- KVRAF
- 25036 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
no, Sascha (I think)Lunch Money wrote:Who, me?
-
- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Uhm... but that wasn't what I was asking for at all.jens wrote: no, Sascha (I think)
I like to slice my loops and probably replace samples, preferably in context.
And using the sequencer is a no-no because I'm strictly using EXT as a VST plugin, without any plans to change this any day soon.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
-
- KVRAF
- 25036 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
Sascha Franck wrote: And using the sequencer is a no-no because I'm strictly using EXT as a VST plugin, without any plans to change this any day soon.
you surely know that the sequencer syncs to the host?