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nexussynth wrote:Gary also told me that to obtain orchestral samples in eastern Europe is dirt cheap where sessions can be done for like, $2500. These are his statements, not mine. Musicians there are highly skilled and talented but have fallen on hard times and so one can sort of take advantage of the situation. Regretable. :(
But been this way for years. There are downfalls to this, as communicating with someone that's not of your native tongue to get a session done the way you want and for the recording engineer and conductor to catch the vibe YOU want without you actually being there is... difficult. Yes, there are cheap alternatives out of eastern block countries, but they come at their own price too.
Do we just raise our chins and say we will pay the stratospheric prices so we can support our brother musicians?
We've done that for 10+ years. Why is it any different now? The MV Mother Load was $3500 when it came out in the mid 90's. VSL in price is not that far off. MV was 6 CD's. VSL is multiple compressed DVD's. VSL certainly looks like the better deal content-wise... until this release of Philharmonik updating its relavancce and its price point along with its amount of content.

East West is really out of touch with their buyers. I have many people telling me privately that they just can't swing that $700 for Gold pro and a $1000 for the Choir, etc. I know I won't ever again pay $1000 for ANY library and I'm actually not alone in that sentiment.
That's fine. That means if you are a professional churning out material that you no longer keep up with your competition. The hobbyist in this case really is the exception, and if they can afford it, they will. I'm sure plenty of hobbyists want it, but I'm sure there's plenty of us who want Neumann U87's in our studio with Manleys and Neve and and and... last I checked, we still made music without all the high end stuff, yes? ;) I know I do.
I certainly don't think they are hurting anyone by offering the Miroslav so cheaply. Yeah, I hate to have to buy it again but it was never given the modern treatment it deserved.
I think SR is bringing it more realistically in-line for the surrent climate of the market, which is a good thing.
I can tell you, the 'other' companies making orchestral libraries are looking somewhat worriedly at what the response will be to the new Miroslav when it comes out. That's the REAL game that is being played right now and why Garritan is holding off (and holding his breath!) about GPO Advanced, and why East West is playing around with the release date for QLSO Pro, to say nothing of MOTU, Notion and the rest.
It's another tool in the tool shed. If people want the tools, they pay the price. If you have no differenciation in your offerings, then yes, the vendors should be worried.

Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!

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Squids wrote:We're about to do something (besides Philharmonik) that is going to blow your minds as far as high quality diverse sounds at an incredible price coming up soon. This is something that has been many years in the making and we're finally almost ready to unleash it on you.
I assume you're referring to Studiophonik here? Or do you have some other top-secret Dr. Evil-ish plan for complete and utter world domination nearing completion?

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Frunobulax wrote:
Squids wrote:We're about to do something (besides Philharmonik) that is going to blow your minds as far as high quality diverse sounds at an incredible price coming up soon. This is something that has been many years in the making and we're finally almost ready to unleash it on you.
I assume you're referring to Studiophonik here? Or do you have some other top-secret Dr. Evil-ish plan for complete and utter world domination nearing completion?
I would be assuming something different since Studiophonik has been announced and talked about for awhile.

Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!

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Squids wrote: It doesn't matter if you are already pro or WANT to be pro or want to SOUND pro (who doesn't at least want that?), we offer professional level material that is affordable and gives great value for the money.
If you really also want to address those that are not pro yet, then take the change to be the first one to include good explanations of what the different articulations actually are and how they are done one the instrument. (Even the pros might like it, since pro doesn't mean that they already know everything)
vibrato, pizzicato, staccato, marcato, espressivo, muted, tremolo, detaché, sul ponte, sforza, crescendo, diminuendo, legato - all stuff the hobby musicians needs to have explained. Would be nice to have a chapter in the manual doing that.

And now s.th. for our amusement: "Marcato" is also an Italian company that makes Pasta machines... :D

tele
Listen to me at soundcklick:
www.soundclick.com/wewritesongs

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Frunobulax wrote:
Squids wrote:We're about to do something (besides Philharmonik) that is going to blow your minds as far as high quality diverse sounds at an incredible price coming up soon. This is something that has been many years in the making and we're finally almost ready to unleash it on you.
I assume you're referring to Studiophonik here? Or do you have some other top-secret Dr. Evil-ish plan for complete and utter world domination nearing completion?
Studiophonik and a massive drum library are two mammoth projects that have been going on for a few years. I have a special team of sample editors that work on it bit by bit every week. But there's something else that is really perhaps 9 years in the making. It is so close to what most musicians want in so many different ways. Price of course is one of them. Compositional power is another.

Between Miroslav Philharmonik, Studiophonik, AmpliTube 2, Ampeg, CSR PLUS my secret product(s) I would just save up or start selling off your unused gear. ;) That is if you like what we've been doing so far. It just gets better.

We recently made a few marketing and sales decisions though regarding my secret that I think are going to make our customers happy that's all. I'm excited about it. I can't wait to tell you but I have to wait just a little bit more. It's a good one! ;)

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Squids wrote:But there's something else that is really perhaps 9 years in the making. It is so close to what most musicians want in so many different ways.
Virtual groupies?:hihi:
Squids wrote:I'm excited about it. I can't wait to tell you but I have to wait just a little bit more. It's a good one! ;)

Consider my interest piqued. I look forward to hearing about it. :)

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Yes, it's virtual groupies. Darn. Did I give away too many clues? I tend to do that! ;) :D

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Aw, I was hoping for some kind of Talent Capsule or something. :lol:

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telebunke wrote:Talking about cheap orchestra libraries. I wonder what EMU's VIRTUOSO X is gonna be like for $70 - GPO is reallllllly expensive compared to this one. :hihi:
Does anyone have it or the original hardware VIRTUOSO?

tele
As someone who pre-ordered the Virtuoso 2000 module and then foolishly 'championed' it, I spent two years wasting incredibly amounts of time programming realistic orchestral sounds for it. My Gosh what a waste!!

I recall my intial horror at listening to the first demos. They sounded like Wendy Carlos' "Digital Moonscapes" album from twenty years ago, and she didn't even use sampling!

It was just that my expectations for that box was SO high. :(

Then I got the Edirol HQ Orchestra and stopped fooling around with my hard-to-use libraries like (original) Vitous and Advanced Orchestra.

Now-a-days at $70, it is a cute little library that can actually sound pretty nice if you put in the work.

Just don't expect realism of ANY degree. :D

It is a shame EMU chose to release their huge library into such a tiny ROM size. I would have at least gone with 128 megs, as the strings aren't even sampled in stereo in the V-2000.
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

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Squids wrote:
Frunobulax wrote:
Squids wrote:We're about to do something (besides Philharmonik) that is going to blow your minds as far as high quality diverse sounds at an incredible price coming up soon. This is something that has been many years in the making and we're finally almost ready to unleash it on you.
I assume you're referring to Studiophonik here? Or do you have some other top-secret Dr. Evil-ish plan for complete and utter world domination nearing completion?
Studiophonik and a massive drum library are two mammoth projects that have been going on for a few years. I have a special team of sample editors that work on it bit by bit every week. But there's something else that is really perhaps 9 years in the making. It is so close to what most musicians want in so many different ways. Price of course is one of them. Compositional power is another.

Between Miroslav Philharmonik, Studiophonik, AmpliTube 2, Ampeg, CSR PLUS my secret product(s) I would just save up or start selling off your unused gear. ;) That is if you like what we've been doing so far. It just gets better.

We recently made a few marketing and sales decisions though regarding my secret that I think are going to make our customers happy that's all. I'm excited about it. I can't wait to tell you but I have to wait just a little bit more. It's a good one! ;)
Should I forget about upgrading to Sampletank 2.1 or should I just get that and want to buy (but can't for a little while) your new product?

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If you don't have SampleTank 2XL yet then that is always a good idea when it comes to mastering the world of SampleTank (because it is like the central station of it all). 2.1 is just that much more incentive to get it!

As for bundle deals, that can always happen. The particular surprise I was talking about (at least one of them) doesn't cost any extra money. Of course I still have plenty of surprises that will as well! ;) But, that sounds like the content of a pretty powerful studio to me.

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I can only afford to spend about $750US...since I'm going back to University for my 2nd degree...need to save up.

Miroslav Philharmonik, Studiophonik, AmpliTube 2, Ampeg, CSR PLUS my secret product(s)...this setup is going to break me if I'm to have them all. A GB for all these in one big bundle deal is probably out of the question.... :(

Zai

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Surprise that doesn't cost anything...I'm all for it.... I like surprises like this! :p

You know, some companies like to roll "surprises" that actually requires users to pay for it...that I don't like much...unless it's a worthwhile surprise. E.g., Reason 3.0...that was a pleasant surprise...love using it so much.

Continue the great work Squids...will keep coming back for more. I'll support ALL your products to the best of my ability...or whatever is left in my bank account! LOL

Zai

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nexussynth wrote:Gary also told me that to obtain orchestral samples in eastern Europe is dirt cheap where sessions can be done for like, $2500.
Well, I think if you read another account, it was probably more than your memory provides:

http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_real_thing/index.html
These are his statements, not mine.
Are you sure about that? Seems convenient to just pull any number out of the air that serves your point. Perhaps your memory is a bit fuzzy... or even colored by your current agenda?
Musicians there are highly skilled and talented but have fallen on hard times and so one can sort of take advantage of the situation. Regretable. :(
Well, regrettable at the very least that at the time it was a country just emerging from communism and was in dire straits to begin with.

But is Gary "taking advantage" by accepting a quote that orchestra management gave to him of their own freewill (and free economy)? Is he an evil man for giving destitute musicians less money than American players would get, but still a whole lot more than they'd gotten in years so they could put food on the table doing what they loved instead of working in a factory?

You've got a strange sense of justice and international commerce!

Oh, and on the home-front, GPO was recorded mostly in the USA, the strings at Lincoln Center, which also served the GOS sessions: nice little picture in the manual.

But I hear he demanded the first-born of each musician as tribute, and kicked every puppy he could find on the way to the session. The man is just THAT evil. :evil: :troll: :roll:

Full disclosure: I'm a Garritan product user, but also an SR user. I also have the sense not to believe everything Joe Nobody says on a forum without researching the facts, especially when it seems like Joe says these things to try to get into Squids' pants like a cheap date! ;)

- m
Markleford's band, The James Rocket: http://www.TheJamesRocket.com/
Markleford's tracks: http://www.markleford.com/music/
Markleford's free MFX, DXi2, DR-008 modules: http://www.TenCrazy.com/

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Let's stop talking about Garritan. I don't know about you but I am bored. Who cares what he did by saving money doing this and that cheap or whatever? Isn't that his business? Well, anyway, it doesn't seem appropriate for another company's forum. He has his own forum to discuss every last detail of his activities if one wants to do that. Meanwhile, let's get back to some more interesting or relevant discussions please.

Of course, you know I like all of you very much so I enjoy a good thread with your participation, especially if it is a friendly one. Thanks.

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