KVR Audio

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:38 pm

well perhaps it's cause I'm so close to Berkley and the competition is high...doing studio work for some small studios may be one thing. But from what I hear the first question is are you in the guild? and the second is where did you go to school? But around here there are a lot of Berkely grads that are unemployed, or just giving private lessons. The only session work Ive ever done (but I never pursued session work actively) was at the request of the band/artist...not the recommendation of a studio...but again, I'm no expert, it's a tough way to pay the bills imo and give props to all those who do session work as a career...

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:59 pm

Sascha,

If there is a man alive who can fluently sight read complex guitar score, then I want to meet him! Seriously, I dont think anyone will hold that against you, particularly if (as you say) there are no problems in reading other types of 'sketched' notation.

mchlwlsn,

My advice to you would be to broaden your horizons a little. I know pro session players who make money doing bits and bobs, yet are really nothing to shout about. They can learn to play stuff in a range of stuff quickly and to a good standard - if you can do this then you'll get some kind of work. Its just you may not be the first call for major studios.

Jongleur · Post by **Jongleur** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:37 am

Thanks to everyone who's replied so far! Great advice and wisdom. I don't have any fantasies about making a living by doing session work. I'm just looking for a way to turn what I love to do into more than just a hobby. I played in bar bands and wedding bands for 7 years until that got boring and unsatisfying. I now play keyboards at a church (contemporary music only, no church hymns), which gives me the opportunity to play live weekly, improvise live, playing for soloists, playing with various ensembles, etc. I would recommend this for any keyboard player looking for somewhere to play, it just doesn't pay anything. I've regularly encountered the same issues many of you have brought up... ego clashes, performing almost always with little or no rehearsal, just using chord charts (I don't sight read, I think I'm more like a guitarist than a pianist in that respect. Anyway, I'm going long here... thanks, again!

soulata · Post by **soulata** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:25 am

another thing

it surely helps if you already play in a band so possible customers can see you in action.

k

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:57 am

I would aproach it from the side where the main entrance is. After 9/11 people are a bit more wary of characters hanging around the back door

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:13 am

tee boy wrote:Sascha,

If there is a man alive who can fluently sight read complex guitar score, then I want to meet him! Seriously, I dont think anyone will hold that against you, particularly if (as you say) there are no problems in reading other types of 'sketched' notation.
.

I have never been in a situation where that was required. I never tried classical guitar session, so that may be required there.

In rock recording sessions you get presented with nothing more than chord charts. If you are required to do cover versions you will usually get some warning in advance that gives you the chance to download the TAB from OLGA and impress everybody.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:21 am

Don't get on that "you'll never need to sightread" ship too early though.
In case you're asked to do any sort of big band or movie stuff, you'll most likely be asked to play written lines.
For me it's been no issue though as such jobs are close to non existing over here.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:45 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Don't get on that "you'll never need to sightread" ship too early though.
In case you're asked to do any sort of big band or movie stuff, you'll most likely be asked to play written lines.
For me it's been no issue though as such jobs are close to non existing over here.

chord charts are useless and I would think even more so for dedicated session guitarist....trust me I'm not alone using alternate tunings.....again especially in sessions...personally I want chord names not charts....and I would not give an artist one dime if he/she couldn't look at a chord name and play it without a chart.

It must just be different here, or not everyone has the session experience they claim (not you Sascha). I do not believe that theory isn't close to ability when it comes to priority for session work. Sorry, I just dont see many people paying people to "jam". I know that if I used a session musician I would have a "plan" for what I want him/her to do. They would have to have a strong understanding in theory. I would welcome thier input, but if I say you're out of key and they stare at me, or I say I want the musician to start out on the minor third (as opposed to the root),or I want them to play a scale in several different keys, I expect them to understand...if they cant again I wouldn't pay for that. I wouldn be like...make it sound like this "dah dah dah dee dee dum dah dee". I would expect to be paying a pro, which means this is his profession, which too me means he/she is trained. Just like a mechanic, I am a backyard mecanic, many of my firends are....I even went to school for engine rebuilding (I have rebuilt a 351 cleveland, a 396, and a Honda 750four)...but when it comes to keeping my car running I take it to the trained mechanc. (and I have training)...not my friends.

However the arts here in the Boston area are quite broad and session musicians need to play many styles. Around here there are composers who write music (sheet music/scores) and actually expect it to be played the way they write it...next week I'm gonna stop by a studio that's close too me just to ask...

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:23 pm

My understanding is that, in major markets, playing sessions is rather specialized: You call the guys who do the particular stuff that you need for that session, who might not be the guys you want on the next one.

Also, I don't think that amazing chops are as important as knowing how to give people what they want. Steve Vai is much more a virtuoso than Tommy Tedesco, but the latter is the one who gets $2000 for playing a 20 second jingle.

Sepheritoh · Post by **Sepheritoh** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:32 pm

Hink

You may be right with many things, but if we are talking session music for GUITARIST as in Sacha's case I have NEVER been in a situation where the composer has actually composed a guitar solo note by note. Yes, the composer (or mostly producer) has very specific ideas of what is required - but writing out guitar solos in TAB note by note is usually not part of it.

[edit - let me put it slightly different - if the composer had the ability to write TABS note for note he / she would not need the session musician in the first place. Session work for rock guitarist is very different that for a piano player where different skills are required.

kara · Post by **kara** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

Hink,

i've read your reply with a lot interest and i do think that situations difere depending on the country and allso the style of music...
We have two different situations here :
- The bands, very often they just play there self the music and barely need session musicians. In best case they would take a kayboard player or other musician to replace some sequenced track they had in there demo; So that's easy because you know what they want.
- Now for the 80 % of others, and this is the case in France. I work in a recording studio as session musician which I call the 'hit' machine, and I'm lucky because I have a fixed contract with them. Now, this is a whole different type of work. Did you ever see how a single (or an album) like that is produced. I'm pretty sure that in the states you too have TV shows like IDOL or Star chase; Well the winner of that wins the production of an album. The goal of the studio is to get out the single of that album as fast as possible to keep the iron hot. Have you ever seen how a single like that is produced ? The best way to describe it is really a jam session. At the base you have the composer who laid out the chords for the song and the text writer and of course the kid that has to sing the thing. But that's it, all the rest is input from ideas from session musicians and hearing 'yes' or 'no' from the production engineer, who judges based on his experience if it has 'hit' posibilities or not... Thus litle to do with real composition, sheet reading, blabla...
Even with some etablished 'stars' here it happens that way. I could tell you a couple where you would be realy amazed. Amongst others, we have a pretty well known rock singer here, who performs allways on stage with his guitar, well the guy barely knows 3 chords on his guitar...

Rony

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:27 pm

First I'm not arguing with anyone here so I'm confused about why I seem to be pushing buttons.

Lets get some things straight.
1. I said SOME may want people who sight read...no where did I say it was a must.
2. Sascha said that the there are few jobs and skills are essential. Well I'm sorry nobody can tell me that THEORY (not sight reading) is not a desired skill in such situations.
3. I never limited it to guitar playing and am speaking of session musicians as a whole. I imagine session guitarists are fall less hard to find then a good horn player.

Kara I appreciate the lesson on song writing, but I got news for you, many of those songs you hear are bought from people called "songwriters"...there are many "songwriters" who are not recording artists, not performers that make a pretty damn good living selling songs to those that are....

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:39 pm

anyway you look at it in the U.S. this could have some info
http://www.afm.org/public/home/index.php

in the UK

http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/html/

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:42 pm

in Kentucky
edit link didn't work, use the locater on the page...

kwac twice · Post by **kwac twice** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:25 pm

Oh gosh, I like to join the fun too.
IF you play horns/strings (Violins/horns/etc) and keyboards, sight-reading is a MUST (most jingle work,or 99% of your 'session' work)
But there are no rules in session work. In my particular location there are 'right to work' rules barring unions from monopolizing the players. But then again, if I hired 'union' musicians, I would be assured of getting someone who can 'sight-read' (unfortunately, playing ability and reading ability are not equivalent)

All the advice on this thread is very good and applicable.
Get to know the composers/musicians who do session work, work on your range of stlyes, show off your range at every opportunity, and you Will Get Booked (at least once- but thats where people-skills rear their ugly head/behind/whatever)

IMHO,always, if it ain't fun doin', (you know the rest)

kwac
kwac

How to approach a studio..?