KVR Audio

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:29 pm

Maybe I'm barking up a blind, three-legged dog here but I find this forum and the effects it relates to rather baffling at times.

The thing that inspired me to post this and really set me thinking about the matter was a post by a VERY well regarded plug designer who, in answering a question along these lines (I've changed the subject to avoid nastiness):

"What kind of speakers did the Marshall combo that you were modelling have installed?"

answered:

"I have no idea."

Clearly there are some very, very talented programmers around, and many plugs are wonderful, but often I read people's comments on a plug and it seems clear that the designer/programmer has little beyond a basic understanding of the audio-engineering side of things.

UAD (for example) make some amazing plugs, and there can be little doubt that they have been designed by people who know AEing inside-out. WaveArts on the other hand (guessing here) don't seem like they have a team of full-on, hardcore, seasoned AEs which (I assume) is why they stick to excellent vanilla-flavoured plugs.

The problem then is with esoteric plugs like guitar amp-sims, reverbs, 'magic' EQs, 'magic' compressors, 'magic' tape-sims, 'vintage' fx etc.

I dunno.

What say you?

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:36 pm

What is the question?

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:39 pm

Er...

blümchen · Post by **blümchen** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:42 pm

What are "audio engineers"? Is that what to eat?

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm

I agree whole heartedly.

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:50 pm

upsidedown wrote:What are "audio engineers"? Is that what to eat?

Point proven?

bitcrusher · Post by **bitcrusher** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:55 pm

you really can't categorize like you are attempting. First off, "audio engineers" vary between the music-fan-studio-owner with vague technical knowledge to the type at UA (electrical engineers, etc).

Then you can't categorize software companies, which vary just as much.
But it is safe to say all have a blend of technical and creative abilities/interests, or else they would be doing something more financially rewarding.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:01 pm

championrabbit wrote:
... lots of stuff ...

I agree 100%. Plugins are sold with words and pretty pictures (blue tubes comes to mind, nice gui, horrible sound). It is a shame really.

.. also, not all can have that super-alien-russian-ear of a certain, now legedary, developer

. These folks do not grow on trees (like plugins seem to do.. pop out hundreds of em every year).

just my 2 cents
-bManic

loophead · Post by **loophead** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:05 pm

Or maybe the type of speaker in the cabinet has little or nothing to do with the simulation being created. Not to say different speakers sound different only to say that the 'speaker' portions of these sims is often a filter not a dynamic system. I have seen few sims which do anything dynamicaly. They tend to follow a curve (which may not be linear). So who cares what brand driver was in the cabinet.

As this was pulled out of context I'm not sure you may have drawn a conclusion which may or may not be true. How about a link to that discussion

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:07 pm

bitcrusher wrote:First off, "audio engineers" vary between the music-fan-studio-owner with vague technical knowledge to the type at UA (electrical engineers, etc).

No.

A 'home studio owner' is not an AE any more than a 'first aid kit owner' is a doctor. Owning some gear means nothing.

Then you can't categorize software companies, which vary just as much.
But it is safe to say all have a blend of technical and creative abilities/interests, or else they would be doing something more financially rewarding.

That point is so far beyond dumb that I'm not going to address it.

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:13 pm

loophead wrote:
As this was pulled out of context I'm not sure you may have drawn a conclusion which may or may not be true. How about a link to that discussion

I think I was clear in my original post; this is a general point, not specific.

As I ALREADY said; the example was changed to hide the identity of the poster.

Duh.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:16 pm

I think what Chapionrabit means is mainly plugins that try to EMULATE or Re-create some hardware. In this category there are some plugins that are good examples of ".. yeah lets hire a good graphics artist to do the pretty GUI and smack some quick stolen lines from musicdsp together and call it a fairchild compressor plugin.." aka, people who have absolutely no qualification to call a plugin a re-creation/emulation. Then again, if signifficant effort was put into development and the end result is still horrbile, what then? Change of carreer perhaps?

This at least is what I agreed to 100%.

- bManic

Ocean Zen · Post by **Ocean Zen** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:19 pm

A perfect example of a ggod Plugin company then, Has to be www.Tritonedigital.com Whose plugins souund gorgeous but whos GUIs get a few complaints. Can't fault Valvetone though.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:21 pm

On a similar note, it is not coincidence that Kjaerhus, Tritonedigital, sonalksis, universal audio, george massenburg etc. make good sounding plugins as they DO have the experience of truly high quality hardware (and software) devices. Which again takes us back to championrabits point:

How can you re-create something that you have no idea of how it really sounds/works in all situations (tweaking some esoteric hardware for 2 hours does not count)?

.. I write too much, sorry!

- bManic

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:23 pm

bmanic wrote:
This at least is what I agreed to 100%.

- bManic

Pretty much.

But also people who release 'GOLD' EQs or 'Vintage' compressors or whatever. Suggestive names meaning nothing. They aren't brave enough to call their plug 'Neeev Channel', but they are happy to call it 'vintage-strip'.

Cast your eyes over this forum; there are many.

Plug designers who aren't audio engineers.