Rich and famous sooner than I think.....????

[topaz]

if this was in the UK then PRS (and in this case coz it's on DVD MCPS > mechanical) would collect the royalty's.

so if you supply the music to them (I assume there must be a buy out fee) then they get your royalty's wich is utter crap.

if they are not only not going to pay you a buy out fee but also collect your royaltys then thats lame
(I would not do this)

up yo you of course.

They reckon that I've got to sign something waiving any rights to royalties

[John Vulich]

They also said that they'll want to use more of my stuff in future projects (they've got ten projects pencilled in over the next year).

In my business, when someone want's a freebie and says they're gonna be doing a lot more projects and they will keep me in mind, I can guarantee you 100% that they are full of shit.

[gaz-67]

If they are making lots of profit from the sale of all those units why shouldn't you reap the rewards for the work you have put into your music....someone as "pro" as these guys shouldn't or wouldn't f**k you over. If this was some small time outfit then doing it for publicity or little financial gain would be understandable. Are you the only artist on the dvd or are others involved...try to contact them. Don't be afraid to question these people cos if they are worth their salt they will gladly answer any doubts you have, yes?

[cptgone]

They also said that they'll want to use more of my stuff in future projects (they've got ten projects pencilled in over the next year).

In my business, when someone want's a freebie and says they're gonna be doing a lot more projects and they will keep me in mind, I can guarantee you 100% that they are full of shit.

You a septic pit cleaner?

[John Vulich]

They also said that they'll want to use more of my stuff in future projects (they've got ten projects pencilled in over the next year).

In my business, when someone want's a freebie and says they're gonna be doing a lot more projects and they will keep me in mind, I can guarantee you 100% that they are full of shit.

You a septic pit cleaner?

No, but it sure does feel like it sometimes.

[Mr. Tunes]

from what i understand the majority of money you make on a licensing deal involves royalties. if they are not paying you that, then you should be very suspicious of these people. or at least get a great buy-out figure. the last thing you want is for the track to end up in a big feature film or tv show and you are not rewarded for it.

also keep in mind that they could be reading this entire thread, maybe they come out to kvr to find new talents? so it's fine to ask for advice here but just be careful! they might know your next move

if they brag that they are involved in a big business situation, they should have the big money to back that. you are looking for exposure but how do you know if they will even print your name on the dvd case? will people be able to find you easily just by seeing the name there? if you're doing it for almost free make sure you are credited properly.

getting the royalties usually involves being registered with a performing arts organization. in canada we have socan, in the states they have ascap/bmi... not sure what you got but it wouldnt hurt to contact them and ask what's up. in exchange for sticking up for musician's rights these companies make their share of money.

good luck!

[Cabinfever]

in my early days i did a track for a very big (non-music) company "for the love of it". i know for a fact that if i had of signed a regular contract i would have made about $40,000 in the first year. instead i made $0 and then had a *huge* fight to establish the rights to my own unpaid work ! worse, i found i didn't even have rights to the name i'd used and so all that publicity i'd earned was no use either.

basically they thought i was a sucker (and with good reason). of course they wanted me to do more work for them and offered a really pitiful deal. and since i'd been 'trampled' the first time i seemed to have very little negotiating power with them.

so i walked away. and that proved the best move i ever made and from then on i dealt with such things the right way. sure it was harder at first starting again from zero, but eventually it all worked out.

the big lesson for me was that if you don't look after you own rights first, don't expect anyone else to !

so mistrust, i think this deal you're offered is very poor. either ask for a decent deal up front or tell em bye bye. you can be damn sure that no one else in this process will be working for nothing - not the publicists, pressing company, pr agents, distributors etc etc. why should you work for free ?

obviously your stuff is good or you wouldn't have been contacted. have faith that more opportunuties will come.

of course all this only applies if you want to make a living out of this. if it's all just a laugh then i suppose who cares. just don't change your mind in six months time.....

[Mr. Tunes]

"obviously your stuff is good or you wouldn't have been contacted. have faith that more opportunuties will come. "

great advice!

i think this is a tricky issue for many of us here. we all start off making music for fun, build an arsenal of tools and get better at cutting tracks. and then the day approaches when you have decide how much you're worth. unfortunately, most of us learn the hard way by making ourselves worth nothing and then realizing after it's too late we are actually worth something big! we should all evauluate how many hours we put into the art, how much money we spend on equipment etc. total it all up and you begin to realize that making music costs a lot of time and money. sure it's something we started off doing for fun, but there's no reason why we cant combine our love with making an income.

if you devalue your work, you devalue everyone else's. why should company X pay you if joe down the street isnt charging anything for his great tracks?

[mistrust]

A few thoughts of my own....

1. I've licensed ONE track to them, for ONE project. When I sent them some tracks to consider a few weeks ago, I added one from my "binned" folder from 2 years ago that was unfinished and unmastered, and which I thought wasn't even good enough to go on the web. So I'm not too bothered if I lose it. I hated that track. Never even played it to my wife.

2. I'm nearly 41 with a wife and 4 young kids and never going to be able to take this music lark seriously. Wondering where the next pair of shoes is coming from - that's the sort of thing I have to take seriously. At least my 8 year old daughter can tell her friends her dad's famous.

3. Because of the family situation, I haven't the time and money to market my music properly - no gigs, free software, can't even afford some blank CDs at the moment. So I'll let the licensing company do plug my music for me on a DVD (sounds naive or cynical?) If I can sell a few CDs because of it, I'll be quite happy.

4. The stuff about my music "being good enough...." - For a label? For what? Not sure. Most of the reviews have said that it's great "soundtrack" material, and I've always been quite keen on getting into that area. One way of doing it is to get a showreel together. This sounds like a good start.

5. And....if someone like this licensing compamy comes along, people actually perceive that your music has something....maybe it'll look good on my CV?

5. I'm not trying to devalue anyone else's work. If someone is lucky enough to get paid for his/her work, then brilliant. They've probably worked a hundred times harder than me and got a hundred times more talent than me and deserve to get paid.

6. If I get ripped off, very ripped off, I'll be logging onto all the world's bulletin boards and saying what a nice company I've been dealing with and sending O'Neill's CEO a very nice letter thanking him for his time.

[Amberience]

Its your music, you shouldn't ever waive any rights over it. My advice anyway. Look at it this way, the industry is the enemy of innovation and creativity.

Sure, you have a situation, we all have situations. You're a father, can't afford shoes, I'm a student, have holes in my boots and dreams in my head.

The industry knows this. Of course they do, they experienced it before they got their nice cushy jobs.

Now they're in the business of ripping off people like you and me, people who are fragile mentally when it comes to their music. We want it to be heard, so we'll go that extra step.

Sometimes that extra step leads straight into the bog of eternal stench.

I don't know about you, but I'm doing things my way. If that leads to a 9-5 job in a warehouse stacking boxes for the rest of my life, then so be it. At least I can say I wasn't f**ked over.

[mistrust]

....A fellow 'mancer, eh? I'm sure I've downloaded some of your stuff.

Thanks for the advice. I didn't realise so many people thought so strongly about this sort of thing. The thing is, I posted the same question on some of the unsigned artist forums and a lot of people were saying "go for it". I guess if wasn't me signing up, there'd be a thousand others queueing up to do it.

[carlos]

I think the company maybe paying a one off syncropation payment, the company should be registered to do this!! u.s law differs from european law slightly on this, hope this helps!

[james0tucson]

I've said "yes"

In my country (US), that can be binding.