Earlier this year I began to teach myself piano. Iv practiced classical guitar for about 15 years, so I feel comfortable that I can manage this. All is going ok, I have all the graded music from initial to 8 (currently working through 3), so there's plenty to go at.
One thing Im unsure about:
When is it appropriate to use the sustain and mute pedals? I cant see any indication in the music so as yet Iv been ignoring them both. Obviously I will do a google search, but if there is anyone around who's experienced in classical piano, then I'd appreciate the advice!
Thank all!
Question for any Pianists
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I'll be interested to see the answer to this...I think as a guitarist I too am somewhat humbled and probably guilty of over-thinking about the pedals...I think pianists as whole probably have a second nature thing happening there, like we do with our picking hand techniques(ie, hand positions, palm muting, picking direction, arpeggio patterns).However, most of my keyboard playing is B4 and synths so it's not as much an issue too me right now, but I love to learn...
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 2 Mar, 2003 from The only civilized county in Texas
Some pianists will not use the sustain pedal if they're playing music that was written before the piano was invented. Bach, for instance. I think that's nonsense. If you want to be authentic, play it on a harpsichord.
In any given piece, use the sustain pedal whenever you think something should be legato and you can not figure out a fingering that will make it.
Mute pedal: I never use it. I don't like the way it colours the sound. And I know how to play softly.
In any given piece, use the sustain pedal whenever you think something should be legato and you can not figure out a fingering that will make it.
Mute pedal: I never use it. I don't like the way it colours the sound. And I know how to play softly.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
so it's a "season to taste" type thing?TennesseeVic wrote:Some pianists will not use the sustain pedal if they're playing music that was written before the piano was invented. Bach, for instance. I think that's nonsense. If you want to be authentic, play it on a harpsichord.
In any given piece, use the sustain pedal whenever you think something should be legato and you can not figure out a fingering that will make it.
Mute pedal: I never use it. I don't like the way it colours the sound. And I know how to play softly.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
Yes, IMO it's up to the individual pianist to determine how long they want to sustain. But just try telling that to the spammers. >:-SHink wrote:so it's a "season to taste" type thing?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
Ah, I think Im with you. I was play this piece earlier, and it had a crotchet to the end on the bar, but then immediately a chord a few octaves away. There was no physical way to let the crotchet play to the end of the bar and hit the chord on the next downbeat. I guess you would use the sustain pedal to hold the note while you move to the next chord, then release and hit the chord bang on time.
Did that make sense?
Did that make sense?
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- KVRist
- 57 posts since 18 Feb, 2001 from London, UK
I started learning piano myself recently and my tutor told me to ignore both pedals for the time being as most music you will be playing while learning will not need it. Just try playing a piece you have learned with the sustain on - muddy isnt it. However if your after a church bell chimes type sound it can be useful.
For the time being (or so im told) try and get as much expression out of what you play by putting 'feeling' into the playing and use the full range of velosity a piano offers.
For the time being (or so im told) try and get as much expression out of what you play by putting 'feeling' into the playing and use the full range of velosity a piano offers.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
I must admit, I'll probably have to reserve my lead foot for when Im behind the wheel - this piano lark is challenging enough!
Im feeling comfortable now with the grade 3 rep, but I want to stick with this for a while and really nail it - there are several techniques which raise their head during this grade that need respect, trills for example!
So you'd say that you could play music upto about grade 5 without having to be concerned with pedals?
Im feeling comfortable now with the grade 3 rep, but I want to stick with this for a while and really nail it - there are several techniques which raise their head during this grade that need respect, trills for example!
So you'd say that you could play music upto about grade 5 without having to be concerned with pedals?
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I think it means when you're ready to use them you'll know...I dont think that is a constant and varies greatly from one person to another...tee boy wrote:I must admit, I'll probably have to reserve my lead foot for when Im behind the wheel - this piano lark is challenging enough!
Im feeling comfortable now with the grade 3 rep, but I want to stick with this for a while and really nail it - there are several techniques which raise their head during this grade that need respect, trills for example!
So you'd say that you could play music upto about grade 5 without having to be concerned with pedals?
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRian
- 1278 posts since 24 May, 2004
I played the first years without the sustain and learned it on a classical piece where i had to lift it every bar, so it was quite easy to learn.
i don't know how technically good you are, but at first it's important that you can lift it on the 1 of every bar without spending any concentration on it.
if you can't do that, you'll often forget to lift it and have an ugly, muddy sustain. or you'll think too much of the pedal and make mistakes with your fingers. but perhaps you're already perfect at this.
after that, play a very repetitive piece of music and try to find out which notes in a bar you'd like to sustain. then try to sustain them.
when you can do that, try a easy, non-repetitive piece of music that you can play without a pedal, don't think about it first, and then play it, occasionally placing sustains where convenient. i don't know if it'll work, but it's worth a try.
regarding the damper pedal: i don't use it at all. IMO you can do enough with your fingers+sustain, i'd only use it if i had to play something piano pianissimo that would be so silent my fingers couldn't hit the keys that softly. but i have never experienced that case.
just a small hint (i don't know if many people know this/have tried it): play a chord, hold the sustain pedal and release the keys. the chord will of course still be there. then, release the sustain quickly and re-press it very quickly. you'll have a very beautiful reverb sound of the chord you played before.
i can imagine this being useful for some of the ambient heads in here
by the way: @Smeagol: i think a piano doesn't offer too much variety in velocity apart from the volume and slight tonal changes. at least when you compare it to the fender rhodes
i don't know how technically good you are, but at first it's important that you can lift it on the 1 of every bar without spending any concentration on it.
if you can't do that, you'll often forget to lift it and have an ugly, muddy sustain. or you'll think too much of the pedal and make mistakes with your fingers. but perhaps you're already perfect at this.
after that, play a very repetitive piece of music and try to find out which notes in a bar you'd like to sustain. then try to sustain them.
when you can do that, try a easy, non-repetitive piece of music that you can play without a pedal, don't think about it first, and then play it, occasionally placing sustains where convenient. i don't know if it'll work, but it's worth a try.
regarding the damper pedal: i don't use it at all. IMO you can do enough with your fingers+sustain, i'd only use it if i had to play something piano pianissimo that would be so silent my fingers couldn't hit the keys that softly. but i have never experienced that case.
just a small hint (i don't know if many people know this/have tried it): play a chord, hold the sustain pedal and release the keys. the chord will of course still be there. then, release the sustain quickly and re-press it very quickly. you'll have a very beautiful reverb sound of the chord you played before.
i can imagine this being useful for some of the ambient heads in here
by the way: @Smeagol: i think a piano doesn't offer too much variety in velocity apart from the volume and slight tonal changes. at least when you compare it to the fender rhodes
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- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 2 Mar, 2003 from The only civilized county in Texas
Personally I don't pay any attention to those mails for pianist enlargement. I'm already 6'3".Meffy wrote:Yes, IMO it's up to the individual pianist to determine how long they want to sustain. But just try telling that to the spammers. >:-SHink wrote:so it's a "season to taste" type thing?
Victor.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
Right gotcha.
At present I would need to concentrate on lifting the pedal, definately. My technique is coming on (Iv been doing the ole 'Hanon - Virtuoso in 60 Exercises' religiously) and I can play trills quite well. But the pedals are foreign turf and I will need to spend time getting the knack with them.
It seems that the sustain pedal really is little more than an expressive tool, which probably explains why there is no reference to it in the notation. I shall incorportate it into my playing when I feel Im ready.
Bastard is, I know a Piano teacher very well. But, everytime i drop by I end up getting kidnapped for about six hours (shes old, dotty and likes to talk!). Im a litte apprehensive to contact here over such a minor issue.
At present I would need to concentrate on lifting the pedal, definately. My technique is coming on (Iv been doing the ole 'Hanon - Virtuoso in 60 Exercises' religiously) and I can play trills quite well. But the pedals are foreign turf and I will need to spend time getting the knack with them.
It seems that the sustain pedal really is little more than an expressive tool, which probably explains why there is no reference to it in the notation. I shall incorportate it into my playing when I feel Im ready.
Bastard is, I know a Piano teacher very well. But, everytime i drop by I end up getting kidnapped for about six hours (shes old, dotty and likes to talk!). Im a litte apprehensive to contact here over such a minor issue.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
Hey Declassified,
On a COMPLETELY different matter, whats in you breaks pack? Im about to start downloading it see, but I wont waste your bandwidth if its not the stuff Im after. Im not looking for edited, processed, sequenced breaks like the 'Dogs On Acid' pack - only cuts straight off the vinyl. Is this whats in your pack?
On a COMPLETELY different matter, whats in you breaks pack? Im about to start downloading it see, but I wont waste your bandwidth if its not the stuff Im after. Im not looking for edited, processed, sequenced breaks like the 'Dogs On Acid' pack - only cuts straight off the vinyl. Is this whats in your pack?
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- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 2 Mar, 2003 from The only civilized county in Texas
1/ Hit a chord very loudly with the pedal released. Release the keys. Now quickly press the pedal.declassified wrote:just a small hint (i don't know if many people know this/have tried it): play a chord, hold the sustain pedal and release the keys. the chord will of course still be there. then, release the sustain quickly and re-press it very quickly. you'll have a very beautiful reverb sound of the chord you played before.
2/ Press the pedal and play a chord all over the keyboard. Press a few keys that are part of the chord without the hammers hitting the strings, now release the pedal.
3/ Hold a chord with your right hand in the middle / upper middle register. Make sure you press the keys softly so that the hammers dont' engage. Now hit a low key (the root of the chord) with your left hand, just shortly.
4/ Hold a chord with one hand, again pressing the keys without engaging the hammers. Now grab inside the piano and strum over all the strings.
All cool stuff you can do with a real piano but (definitely 4, probably the others too) not with a sampled one.