the analog warmth myth

[Meffy]

Okay, one last comment. Couldn't let this go.

arrogance and prejudice

Such as beginning with the assumption that "analog warmth" is a myth? :-D That sounds very like prejudice to me. Might come off as just a teensy bit arrogant too. Just a thought. ;-)

(I'm not ragging on you, mark, just pointing out that like tends to beget like.)

[Rangtangtang]

It depends on what your listening to, that is, the actual analogue synth or just a recording of it, which in the end is where it will wind up. So, does a recording of a anologue synth any better/worse than a VSTi? Though, some poeple use samples of the original instrument. At the end of the day whith the final mix, would one realy tell the subtle qualities or differences of anything? I like those sound warmers, but they may not sound that good in the end, though?

[ddummer]

About listening examples:

If someone could show HOW it should sound then
it would be easier to make a plug that will do
just that... or else we dwell in darkness...

//Daniel

[Rangtangtang]

This leads me to another question?



O/K, if I copy some audio, I should get an exact duplicate, yes?


But, if I turn an analogue synth or a VSTi to audio, I won't get an exact copy?


Finaly, if I turn a sampler into audio, will that become an exact duplicate?







........................any comments

[deleted]

DELETED

[jmh]

About listening examples:

If someone could show HOW it should sound then
it would be easier to make a plug that will do
just that... or else we dwell in darkness...

//Daniel

Ok, this isn't related to the actual topic (or it is, but in another way)...

I have that Future Music cover CD with the Orgon Enigizer semimodular analogue synth soundclip. I've been meaning to put the clip online (f**k copyrights) as an example of filter characteristics I'd love to hear done in VSTi form. But every time I'm about to do it, I just think about the usual reactions it would get from KVR and end up saying "f**k it" - at least for posting it publicly here. It's just not worth it in the end. I'll rather send it to a couple of developers I'm familiar with and hope for the best...

Regards,

JMH

[bmanic]

then again, there is some inhibition to "proving" things at kvr.. it doesnt seem to happen often. opinions fly, buzz words encircle, but nothing is ever proven...

How do you show the blind the difference of blue and red? This is very much the case at KvR.

- bManic

[Meffy]

Good point. Ears have to want to hear, or they won't. Then again, sometimes wanting too much to hear something will make you think you hear what's not there. For sure it's a vicious high-order polygon.

(oops, there goes my resolution not to say more :-D)

[bmanic]

People are constantly expecting a truly dramatic difference of the processing of "vintage" plugins but the effect can be rather subtle for untrained ears.

I'd say a quite good rule of thumb is, insert voxengo tapebus over a mix at default settings and toggle it on and off. If you can hear that slight 'glue' and tightening of the mix then you have ears that can hear these subtle changes. One that doesn't hear the difference should not post these kind of threads. Of course hearing the tapebus effect doesn't make it better or worse it simply shows how subtle this 'vintage' thing should be.

Now as for analogue synth emulations, that's a completely different matter as the real deal at extreme settings is VERY hard to emulate (think audiorate modulations and high resonance sweeps).

I'll post some before/after examples of the fairchild sample in the sintefex and we'll see how many can 'spot the effect'.

Last but not least.. if you can't hear it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

- bManic

[bmanic]

Good point. Ears have to want to hear, or they won't. Then again, sometimes wanting too much to hear something will make you think you hear what's not there. For sure it's a vicious high-order polygon.

(oops, there goes my resolution not to say more )

Very true, which is why one needs to train with proper settings. Getting the free ABX software is VITAL in ear training as the placebo effect is a mighty poverful one (one can learn to minimise the chance of placebo but it's hard even after a lot of training).

Cheers!
bManic

[Meffy]

Last but not least.. if you can't hear it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

True dat. "You never hear the one that gets ya." =o.O=

[bmanic]

..

[bmanic]

About listening examples:

If someone could show HOW it should sound then
it would be easier to make a plug that will do
just that... or else we dwell in darkness...

//Daniel

I'll try to describe what I hear in the fairchild sample once I post the example. It's subtle but it does have some weird "sounds more real" feeling to it.

- bManic

[bmanic]

Here are the clips I promised. NOTE!: These are EXTREMELY SUBTLE so if you can't hear the effect, don't worry, it probably just means that your monitoring is not up to the task or you are not used to listening to small details. A little hint for the newbies: listen to the transients of the kick and snare and the 'breath' of the vocals. Also note the difference in low frequencies.

Clip1

Clip2

Clip3

Use PC ABX for doing a double blind test and easy switching.

Now then.. which is which?

- bManic

EDIT: One more thing I forgot to add. I'll try to compose a little 'VSTi and vanilla effects' only tune today where I'll only use EQ and Compressors + VSTi's for sounds (no samples or sample based VSTi's) and hope to demonstrate the difference of hardware vs software. No promises though as I have a desperate urge to drink or smoke some today.

[jmh]

Can't wait to hear the example - and the flood of replies about either not hearing or not getting it...

Regards,

JMH

bmanic I'll try to get that DevilFish for tomorrow so we'll have something to blow our brains and ears with