Miroslav Philharmonik Pre-Orders Open!!!

[Squids]

will Philharmonik ship in a box or DVD case? will the boxed edition delay issue be arising again, i seem to remember it being a one-off issue?

Full box.

[Squids]

I own a Miroslav Sample CD in UNITY format. (Bitheadz Unity). The license that came with the CD (on the inside of the shrink wrapped Jewel Case) said that the user MUST credit the Miroslav Library in any commercial song.

Is that the case with this library?

If I may use the library for musical compositions WITHOUT crediting the sample library every time, I will buy it.

If I MUST credit the sample library when used in my musical compositions, I will pass (The Unity CD went unused).

I am excited about the product -- what is the license to use this Miroslav sample library? Must credit be given?

I don't believe in making people credit to use samples. But, I think people shouldn't have a problem doing it either. So, you may not HAVE to but it would be nice if you did.

[Squids]

it's not really fair to make people credit the products they use if they paid fair money for them.

It's not fair because they paid money for them? So, it also isn't fair to have to credit a musician who plays on an album if he was paid? That makes no sense.

As you pointed out, I am not for making people credit. A credit should really be because someone appreciates what element you've added to a production. A special thanks or some kind of mention is nice when possible. It isn't always possible though and that's just the way it goes sometimes. I've worked on a bunch of albums and didn't get a printed credit that I deserved. Not even a special thanks. It would have been nice but none of that stuff really matters much.

[Squids]

Hey Squids, hopefully this is an easy question. I'm a fairly typical "lazy" sample user in that when I'm using orchestral stuff, it's basically to make a pop tune classier. I want resaonable realism but basically I want to get some parts that work in a pop mix, up and running fast. I tried out a friends VSL library once and decided not to bother because it was much too much like hard work to get a nice orchestral string thing going. All the choices of articulation were, I'm sure, awesome for people who know and understand the orchestral genre but they were a pain for me. I bought the Apple JamPack 4 and I'm loving it! 70% of the time it gets me what I want straight away. Now then..for the other 30%? Will the new Miroslav plug in be easy to use or will I be back wading through a huge chunk of that $4000 library to find something I can use to put warm string wash under a gentle verse? Will I have to spend ages stacking various violins to get what sounds like a section playing fast with a short attack? I'm sure you get my point, can I keep being lazy or will a great result still depend on a great effort? By the way, got SampleTank 2XL, Got Sonik Synth 2, got stacks of extra library. I'm a fan for sure so this question comes with love!

Tunes and Kim are right. This is great for both the "lazy" and the extremely dedicated meticulous programmer/arranger. We've gone to great lengths to provide material that would appeal to both. Luckily I happen to be into both so, as usual, we went 110% in our efforts.

[g3g4g5]

Squids wrote:

I don't believe in making people credit to use samples. But, I think people shouldn't have a problem doing it either. So, you may not HAVE to but it would be nice if you did.
---

I agree. I would like to credit the samples and companies.

Hasn't Propellerheads Reason changed all of our lives? I love Sonic Synth, SampleTank and the 15+ Sonic Refills I have. Native Instruments, Motu and uHe are the tops, too.

But, having said that, I believe that once I pay for samples, I personally don't want there to be a REQUIREMENT to give credit for each sample.

I do believe it's nice, healthy and honest to give credit, however. So, I agree with you, Squids.

I am going to order the Miroslave Set (terrific deal) from your company because (in addition to "no requirement" to cite the samples) I believe that your company's products and service are one of the BEST in the music software business (no lie

[Mr. Tunes]

It's not fair because they paid money for them? So, it also isn't fair to have to credit a musician who plays on an album if he was paid? That makes no sense.

aHAH! i was going to add something about this cause i knew it would come up.

i dont believe that musicians are "products". they dedicate a unique performance to your record and thus they deserve a credit. but sample libraries, in their nature are meant to serve a purpose in a production to kind of replace the musician, or at least a musician takes the sample library under their wing and it becomes a part of their arsenal. people dont have to credit "korg triton" or "yamaha motif drums expansion 9" as part of their credits so why should they have to credit a library if they dont want to?

i should add that if i make an album i would quote Sonic Reality in my thank yous. it's just something that's well deserved and i think many people on this forum would have the same obligation to thank their favorite plugin/sound producers when it comes time to print the album.

but to some musicians they take the anonimity of their gear very seriously. if they want to keep it a secret what tools they use, they should be able to keep that secret if they paid for them. but when they want to keep the contributors of the album secret, that's just unfair to leave out "Jessica Witherspoon" as your lead vocalists or something

i've been in a situation where i didnt get credit for my work on an animation, it got screened at a big filmfest here and my name was not to be found anywhere, in the program guide and there was no credit roll at the end. i was furious, and i would've liked to given SR credit for the advertising but I didnt even get credited!!!

[nexussynth]

..We had a combination of multiple ensembles recorded together by Miroslav as well as our own mixing and relooping/mapping of various combinations such as brass and strings, strings and choirs with the Miroslav material. The result is not only some beautiful patches on their own but also a great element for a rich full orchestra combi! This way you don't need to open all 16 parts in layer just to have a full orchestra combi. It also takes up less CPU.

So Miroslav has recorded a full orchestral tutti with all sections playing together, like Siedlaczak did in his original library titled just "Orchestra"?

I have personally found that one to be a splendid library although it begged to be more complete. It is starting to get a little long in the tooth these days but I encounter orchestral midi-composers today who think that the concept is cheesy when in reality as you obviously know squids, it's a tremendous resource for achieveing a nice full, sweeping orchestral sound without much fuss. I have heard that old library on many t.v. shows over the years I still use the old Siedlaczak orchestra set. It's the "Advanced Orchestra" that was so dissapointing because he went off in the wrong direction with samples that didn't match the first set at all.

Then too, many 'top' film composers like James Newton Howard and others have made custom samples of this sort from their own scoring sessions over the years. Its such a huge time saver for them because they are going to end up with a live orchestra and just need a convincing demo. If used correctly it can really sound convincing with all the musicians playing together. Quite musical imo.

The reason I mention all that is so maybe some here can understand why such a thing is so valuable in an orchestral library. The other libraries today, good as they are, don't have full orchestra samples. What ensembles there are are 'faked' from layers in the sampler which is also useful but not as easy to play or as real-sounding. That alone makes this collection a must-have imho!

I am so glad I pre-ordered

[Squids]

Yeah, there was material with mixed orchestra sections and it sounded so good that we did more by layering and resampling. Even then when the sections are in their correct positioning it blends so well with all of the material whether recorded individually or live together. So, we went to this extra effort for this particular aspect of the library.

Let me talk about that aspect a little more here. The concept of mixed orchestra sections may sound cheesy to a composer that only arranges part by part. Actually, if they think it is "cheesy" that sounds a bit snobby to me. But, some may use it and some will only use the individual solo and sections with different articulations. There's certainly plenty of that (even more than the original library had of that). But, to me there are two modes of working. Fast and instant where you can improvise and take full advantage of your inspiration and imagination and then Slow, meticulous and detailed where you can work on every aspect of the production, arrangement, mixing, performance elements and so on.

If you equate it to a rock band, the "fast" mode is basically jamming together and the "slow" mode is overdubbing and mixing the music. So, with a lot of these ready to go full string sections or layered ensmbles on top of combi layers themselves which have parts coming in and out via controllers, velocity and key ranges you get the ability to just PLAY and see what you'll come up with! This is how I write on a piano or a guitar. So, to do it with what sounds pretty close to a live orchestra is just AWESOME fun! Imagine you are scoring a film and you are watching the screen. Don't you want to hear a mock up of what your orchestral score might sound like? These kind of sounds get you close and then you can flesh it out later after you've tried a bunch of things to hear what you like. Imagine how long it would take to "try a few things" by arranging each individual part! I'd lose perspective and get attached to it working on it that long. For me the less time I have spent on something the more open I am about keeping it or losing it.

[Squids]

It's not fair because they paid money for them? So, it also isn't fair to have to credit a musician who plays on an album if he was paid? That makes no sense.

aHAH! i was going to add something about this cause i knew it would come up.

i dont believe that musicians are "products". they dedicate a unique performance to your record and thus they deserve a credit. but sample libraries, in their nature are meant to serve a purpose in a production to kind of replace the musician, or at least a musician takes the sample library under their wing and it becomes a part of their arsenal. people dont have to credit "korg triton" or "yamaha motif drums expansion 9" as part of their credits so why should they have to credit a library if they dont want to?

i should add that if i make an album i would quote Sonic Reality in my thank yous. it's just something that's well deserved and i think many people on this forum would have the same obligation to thank their favorite plugin/sound producers when it comes time to print the album.

but to some musicians they take the anonimity of their gear very seriously. if they want to keep it a secret what tools they use, they should be able to keep that secret if they paid for them. but when they want to keep the contributors of the album secret, that's just unfair to leave out "Jessica Witherspoon" as your lead vocalists or something

i've been in a situation where i didnt get credit for my work on an animation, it got screened at a big filmfest here and my name was not to be found anywhere, in the program guide and there was no credit roll at the end. i was furious, and i would've liked to given SR credit for the advertising but I didnt even get credited!!!

Well, like I said, even when you WORK on an album sometimes you don't get credited. I think the artist should have the option of who, what and why they want to credit or not. That is why myself as a musician or as a sound developer don't require anyone to credit. But, as I said, it is nice when people show their appreciation.

Larger sample libraries are a little different than Tritons in terms of recorded material content. But, both have samples and they were recorded by someone. You DO see a lot of albums with thank yous to Yamaha, Roland, Korg etc. It all depends on how you look at it though. If I recorded and played a drum loop and you used it in your tune then that means you didn't have to go record a drummer yourself. Essentially I played drums on your track! If you use some other instruments then you could say that I did some engineering on your track! YOU didn't go record string players. I did. What happens is that people forget that these are still recording sessions that someone did. The sounds don't just come out of nowhere. I DO think it at least adds value to sounds when people think about what it would take for them to record those instruments and players in a studio. I think that those that are used to that are even MORE willing and anxious to credit a sample company for creating these tools which save them money and time. But, anyway, this is all a matter of perspective. When you buy our sounds you can use them in your music and if you want to keep it a secret then that's fine. If you want to tell the world then that's fine too. We just want you to be happy with them and be inspired.

[Mr. Tunes]

squids, i'm sorry i was a little insensitive earlier. i started to realize how this is a very touchy subject for sample developers cause their work(your work) is heard everyday on the radio, hit records, and top soundtracks yet go uncredited all day. i understand it can get frustrating. also, tied into the question about "lazy combis" i know that a lot of pros dont even go through much work to at least change presets, they go straight onto the CDs. same with drum loops.

so i do agree with you buddy, i think it's just an interesting issue to discuss though.

i was making grilled cheese today and i thought about how much engineering the SR gang has done for me. in another thread i was bragging about how quickly i make tracks now, well it's cause of them and they need credit for it.

my favorite quote is "YOU didnt go record string players. I did"
it costs so much to do this! so much setup required.

I think in relation to the Miroslav issue though... some people dont want to give away the fact that they used a sampled orchestra on their cd, they want to fool you into thinking it was real and that could go down the drain on the credits! i think that might've been why g3g4g5 didnt like the policy on the old library he bought, on top of them making that a mandetory crediting.

[g3g4g5]

I think in relation to the Miroslav issue though... some people dont want to give away the fact that they used a sampled orchestra on their cd, they want to fool you into thinking it was real and that could go down the drain on the credits! i think that might've been why g3g4g5 didnt like the policy on the old library he bought, on top of them making that a mandetory crediting.

Here's the reason why I care so much about the license: I read every word of every license agreement.

I want to follow the letter of the seller's agreement.

Before I buy "homemade" sample CDs, I email the creator to ensure that it's legal and royalty free.

I HATE seeing people stealing music, software and samples.

So, it wasn't that I wanted to "keep it secret" or "hide" that I used Bitheadz Unity Miroslav's sounds -- it's just that I didn't want to have to bother to remember to credit it everytime for every use (even just a note). If I put out music with the Bitheadz Unity version of Miroslav, it would always be another step to credit the library - ALWAYS. There was no option otherwise. It was in the license. I read the license. I made my decision.

So, in conclusion, the reason I ask about the Sonic Reality/eSoundz license isn't to HIDE the credit for the work; rather, it's to RESPECT and HONOR the license.

I am sincere about this stuff.

[Rellik]

Looking forward to July 5th

More and more, I'm realizing that the main reason I'm excited about Philharmonik is because of this one demo... I'm pretty sure you can guess which one it is (I think it's called "Full Orchestra"? it was a Miroslav demo... anyway, it's the really impressive kick-ass one). So it's going to be good to hear some more demos.

What I'm really looking for in an orchestral library is the ability to be perfectly articulate with all instruments. How are the articulations handled in Philharmonik? Has key-switching been implemented?! Is that the secret? It doesn't really make sense to me to have a whole slew of tracks when all you want is to have some nice staccato and legato of the same section/instrument...

I have a lot of questions, obviously one that's really important to is how clear the marcato sounds are. If I have a normal marcato patch, that will allow me to have a note that attacks INSTANTLY and then sustains indefinitely without breaking realism? That's really my whole reason for wanting an orchestral libary - I've had it with trying to mess with the timing and automation so that the attack comes in when it's supposed to. I just want to write a sequence and have it played back accurately and realistically, no matter how fast (up to a point) and no matter how long each note of the sequence sustains.

I hope there will be lots of demos more info and demo's are always extremely appreciated! I'm surprised that everyone seems to be pre-ordering BEFORE real info and demo's have been released - I guess they're familiar with the original Miroslav material.

[Squids]

Just to be clear, I wasn't bent out of shape over the issue of the credit thing. It doesn't bother me if sample companies aren't credited or us specifically or Miroslav. To me that's up to you! Sometimes it isn't possible to add credits at all or there are limits and not all can be included. I am not sensitive about the subject or anything. But, I just have an opinion about it since it was brought up. It's not like I am saying "hey, I recorded those drums on your album where is my credit?!". I know that they are sold as products for you to use and if you want people to think your drum programming and our drum samples were actually a real drummer in the studio that's totally cool! Or whatever you want to say or not say about your productions if they are commercially released. I have no ego attachment to the creation of the sounds where I want or need recognition. We make products. We're happy enough when people buy them, use them and enjoy them.

[Mallory]

So will Philharmonik be crediting the musicians who's playing was sampled ?

Btw, I'll ask just one more time. Is there going to be any more detailed info on the Choir elements of this product and what about a demo or two (of the choirs)

[Squids]

Looking forward to July 5th


I hope there will be lots of demos more info and demo's are always extremely appreciated! I'm surprised that everyone seems to be pre-ordering BEFORE real info and demo's have been released - I guess they're familiar with the original Miroslav material.

But, real info and demos HAVE been released. There's obviously more info coming but there's apparently enough for most people (especially current IK and/or SR users) to make their decision to just go ahead and buy THIS deal. Whether it is simply the fact that it is a $4,000 classic library now available as a plug-in for just $400. or that there is all of this additional material or that the demos sound good so far or that what I've said about it sounds enticing or that they own Sonik Synth 2 and realize that this is the orchestral workstation cousin or any number of things. Hundreds of people have already pre-ordered it. Oh, I guess another reason is because it will be going up in price or that a crossgrade for ST2 users is available for a limited time. This is the best time to get it. So, people are taking advantage of that. I think they'll be happy they did.