Rant on music theory ignorance.

[TVD]

They're just making excuses because they don't want to take any time or energy to learn something. They would rather just make cookie cutter dance styles that take half an hour and half a brain to make. Then they can go to all their friends and say, "Yo!! Peep dis new darktrance-deep-psycore-leftstep-herdtech-dance dance revolution!" and their friends will be like "Yo!! Dats tight yo! Dat 303-virus-909-MC 3000 beat is sick, yall!!" and then they go to the club and say "YO!! Drop dis joint yo!" Then the dj will be like "Yo, dats a tizight track yo, ALL THE LAYDEEZ.... SCREAM!!!!!" and then he'll pick up some honeys at da club, and go back to the room and overdose on love boat.

You must known at least the major, minor, and blues scales by memory (with your ears of course).

And you better known all of your triad (3 notes) and 7th (4 notes) chords.

And if you can't make the time to study & practice THAT much music theory or your craft, than the only thing that you're doing with your instruments is making some f***ing noise!

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes.


--

It's quite ironic, that ObiWan would utter such an "absolute" statement, isn't it?

BTW, I was dead serious.

[McLilith]

TVD, that's simply absurd. A person doesn't have to be capable of playing every style of music to be considered a "true" musician any more than a vehicle has to be both an ox cart and a jet fighter plane, to be considered a "true" mode of transportation.


take care,
McLilith

[TVD]

If yer born with da funk then you don't need none of that theory shit..

Why?

Everyone needs to develop. You cant make computer music without learning to use the equipment, and to an extent the theory behind how it works. No amount of 'funk' will make you a wizard in Cubase or PT without serious time investment.

Same could be said for writing and orchestrating music.

Listen, I dont think anyone is saying that you cant make great music without theoretical knowledge. We're saying that with that knowledge you'll be able to develop and become much more than without it.

Case in point: Without jazz, funk would not exist! And without blues, rock & roll would not exist!

And damn it, without classical, they would not be new age or electronic music at all!!!

REMEMBER: Even Kraftwerk knew a lot about classical!

[TVD]

TVD, that's simply absurd. A person doesn't have to be capable of playing every style of music to be considered a "true" musician any more than a vehicle has to be both an ox cart and a jet fighter plane, to be considered a "true" mode of transportation.


take care,
McLilith

BTW, classical is EVERYTHING that trance wants to be!

McLilith, I know you disagree with me on certain things. But think about THAT statement above.

[McLilith]

BTW, I was dead serious.

Yes, that's the sad part.

According to you, all I accomplished when I created Carnival of Fates was to create some "f***ing noise", simply because I don't happen to have any blues scales memorized. That's simply absurd.

I don't consider Carnival of Fates to be the most technically breathtaking piece of music ever written (it's certainly not), but I don't certainly consider it to be " f***ing noise" either!

What I do consider, is you to be f***ing rude.


take care,
McLilith


--
...and I mean that with in the nicest possible way.

[McLilith]

BTW, classical is EVERYTHING that trance wants to be!

McLilith, I know you disagree with me on certain things. But think about THAT statement above.

So, is classical easy to dance to in a drug-induced stupor, while looking for someone to have sex with? Is it repetitive enough that people "zone out" and lose all sense of time, and hopefully eventually all sense of sexual inhibition? If not, then I doubt it's really everything that trance wants to be.

Mind you, I'm not a trance advocate or enthusiast. I'm just taking my best guess there.



McLilith

[TVD]

BTW, I was dead serious.

Yes, that's the sad part.

According to you, all I accomplished when I created Carnival of Fates was to create some "f***ing noise", simply because I don't happen to have any blues scales memorized. That's simply absurd.

I don't consider Carnival of Fates to be the most technically breathtaking piece of music ever written (it's certainly not), but I don't certainly consider it to be " f***ing noise" either!

What I do consider, is you to be f***ing rude.


take care,
McLilith


--
...and I mean that with in the nicest possible way.

BTW, I never heard one f***ing note off of any of your songs yet. So I can't pass judgement.

[TVD]

BTW, classical is EVERYTHING that trance wants to be!

McLilith, I know you disagree with me on certain things. But think about THAT statement above.

So, is classical easy to dance to in a drug-induced stupor, while looking for someone to have sex with? Is it repetitive enough that people "zone out" and lose all sense of time, and hopefully eventually all sense of sexual inhibition? If not, then I doubt it's really everything that trance wants to be.

Mind you, I'm not a trance advocate or enthusiast. I'm just taking my best guess there.



McLilith

No, no. THAT a great question!

Have you ever listen to Ludwig Van Beethoven?
http://www.raptusassociation.org/

Or how about a Freemason by the name of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (an artist that invented a chord technique to make people think about peace or war at will)?
http://www.island-of-freedom.com/MOZART.HTM
http://www.mozartproject.org/index.html

Now if you exclude the rapid-fire drum machine beats, you can hear for yourself that trance has been stealing a lot of ideas from classical...not necessary as a whole, but in good pieces at a time (Read: lush strings).

[McLilith]

BTW, I never heard one f***ing note off of any of your songs yet. So I can't past judgement.

But you said yourself, that anyone who didn't know at least those scales was only creating "f***ing noise". The horrible truth is, I don't any blues scales. According to your statement, I am doomed to creating only "f***ing noise". You have effectively judged me and my music without even listening to my music.

That's what I didn't like about the "absolute" nature of your comments. You have some good points deep down, but you miss the mark when you phrase them in this "absolute" style of yours. There are going to be all sorts of exceptions to the "absolute rules" you seem to be handing out. I just hope you realize that.

I also hope you understand that I'm not upset with you. I was having a bit of fun with your phrase, and I didn't intend to say anything to upset you. (I hope I haven't.)

Also, if you want to properly disparage my music, at least click on that link I posted a bit earlier in this thread, and comment on the details of the actual music itself. If you want some perspective, I don't consider the piece finished, and I don't think it's anything in the way of a technical masterpiece by any means, but I do think it's interesting so far. I also don't think it's just "f***ing noise", as you insisted that someone who didn't know blues scales would be doomed to create.

Carnival Of Fates


take care,
McLilith

[Cordelia]

"Once you have been to that side it hurts to come back."
Morgaax, well said.
"For me, not knowing too much theory helps keep things anchored firmly in the emotional and spiritual aspects of the music."
McLilith, I understand this point of view as well.
ResonantOrder made a good point a couple of pages back when he said it's valuable to be of two minds. To be able to write from the heart, but still communicate your ideas well.
People who scoff at theory remind me of the young poets who think reading books will taint their genius, or of rich kids who shop at thrift stores. There's a self conscious pose to it.

[xoxos]

heaven forbid!

[Cordelia]

Hello xoxos.

[P.T.]

Music and visual art came first.

People then tried to analyze the better works to find what it was that made it better and appealing to many people.

When they came up with the principals that made those works so appealing they had music and art theory.

People with natural inate ability don't really need theory though it can be useful and help a person to expand their talents. Their art just comes out of them through inspiration.

People with less inate ability use theory as a template to create their works.

Using theory to make art is doing it backwards.

[xoxos]

ill stop

[McLilith]

People who scoff at theory remind me of the young poets who think reading books will taint their genius, or of rich kids who shop at thrift stores. There's a self conscious pose to it.

I'm not exactly someone who scoffs at theory, because I do appreciate a lot of the people who know it well. I also appreciate many of the people who have fully mastered one or more musical instruments.

My position is simply that mastering musical theory is not an absolute requirement for creating memorable, or interesting music. For my particular path, I chose not to study theory too closely. I have a slight interest in theory, and I plan to keep it that way, at least for now.

I don't think there's a "pose" in there anywhere. Doesn't "pose" imply "hypocrisy" or "pretense", even if technically it doesn't explicitly say it? I'm certainly not pretending about my approach to music theory. I'm not saying that it makes me any better than anyone else (unlike some people espousing the "absolute benefits" of a proper musical education ). I'm just saying that it suits me personally, and that I don't really like being told that I could never be considered a "true" musician without knowing a lot of music theory.

That's like saying a person couldn't truly drive a car, without being able to spell the words accelerator and carburetor, or being able to explain in great technical detail the various advantages and disadvantages of a limited-slip differential.


take care,
McLilith