Does any host have a usable Freeze?

[superddman]

Well mates...after slogging through this entire thread I remain convinced that there is nothing quite like the efficiency of bouncing the track.

AHHH!!!
But the whole point to this thread is that we do want freeze, but better from what it is currently.

[headquest]

I read your post but from what I can understand it still does not allow you to move around the frozen parts. IMO this is the most important thing that it should have. But I might be wrong.

Erm, well you can

You they also appear as full audio files in the left-hand browser so that you can add them into other tracks as well

[superddman]

I read your post but from what I can understand it still does not allow you to move around the frozen parts. IMO this is the most important thing that it should have. But I might be wrong.

Erm, well you can

You they also appear as full audio files in the left-hand browser so that you can add them into other tracks as well

But you have to find the frozen part in the browser and reinsert it into a new audio track to be able to move it around in the arrangement?

BTW, I have updated my initial post of this thread. There are a few more requirements added.

[Sascha Franck]

Well mates...after slogging through this entire thread I remain convinced that there is nothing quite like the efficiency of bouncing the track.

Seems like that to me as well.
Maybe this is something host manufactures should offer:
"Bounce and automatically add bounced result to arrange page and track list. Hide original MIDI/audio track while "coupling" regions to the bounced track (so whenever something is rearranged, the original will follow). Keep essential (user defineable) parameters such as inserts or volume settings intact. Offer something to "beam" adjustments made on the bounced track over to the original (now hidden) track when unfreezing".
Apart from the last point and automatic track hiding, all this is possible with manually bounced tracks.

[superddman]

Well mates...after slogging through this entire thread I remain convinced that there is nothing quite like the efficiency of bouncing the track.

Seems like that to me as well.
Maybe this is something host manufactures should offer:
"Bounce and automatically add bounced result to arrange page and track list. Hide original MIDI/audio track while "coupling" regions to the bounced track (so whenever something is rearranged, the original will follow). Keep essential (user defineable) parameters such as inserts or volume settings intact. Offer something to "beam" adjustments made on the bounced track over to the original (now hidden) track when unfreezing".
Apart from the last point and automatic track hiding, all this is possible with manually bounced tracks.

Ya, but Freeze in reality is bouncing. So they just need to streamline either one so that it blends with the workflow.

[superddman]

I was just wondring, can you guys list all the hosts that allow you to move frozen parts in the arrangement?

[headquest]

But you have to find the frozen part in the browser and reinsert it into a new audio track to be able to move it around in the arrangement?

You can either:


1) Re-record your arrangement from the session view using frozen tracks and triggering in the "new" order you want them. (This is where some of us were initially confused... the clips remain frozen during the recording process but once you hit stop the track ppears unfrozen, because you have changed it, so you then simply need to right click and freeze it again if you wish to).

2) As you say, find the frozen clips (which is no problem at all - you simply select "File > Save Set Self COntained" and all the frozen clips appear right there for you (The browser in Live is displayed in both the main windows, on the left side, so you don't have to open some other window for any of this as in more complex hosts )

Either way, I think this is a neat and flexible process.

[superddman]

But you have to find the frozen part in the browser and reinsert it into a new audio track to be able to move it around in the arrangement?

You can either:


1) Re-record your arrangement from the session view using frozen tracks and triggering in the "new" order you want them. (This is where some of us were initially confused... the clips remain frozen during the recording process but once you hit stop the track ppears unfrozen, because you have changed it, so you then simply need to right click and freeze it again if you wish to).

2) As you say, find the frozen clips (which is no problem at all - you simply select "File > Save Set Self COntained" and all the frozen clips appear right there for you (The browser in Live is displayed in both the main windows, on the left side, so you don't have to open some other window for any of this as in more complex hosts )

Either way, I think this is a neat and flexible process.

i see. can you then hide the original frozen track?

[headquest]

i see. can you then hide the original frozen track?

Assuming you are still using the frozen track as the sound source you probably wouldn't want to hide it because there are elements that you can still adjust - volume, pan, send amounts, crossfader, etc. In session view though you can horizonally rescale the width of any channel in version 5, simply by dragging the edge. On my 15.4" monitor I was able to have 65 mixer strips lined up when I reduced them.

If instead you are re-using the frozen clips in a seperate track, you might as well delete the original MIDI track altogether. The forzen clips will still be there in the browser ready for use. In effect you have batch-rendered all the clips in the track and no longer need the frozen track at all. You can simply insert and arrange the frozen renders as you want them in the arrangement.

[superddman]

i see. can you then hide the original frozen track?

Assuming you are still using the frozen track as the sound source you probably wouldn't want to hide it because there are elements that you can still adjust - volume, pan, send amounts, crossfader, etc. In session view though you can horizonally rescale the width of any channel in version 5, simply by dragging the edge. On my 15.4" monitor I was able to have 65 mixer strips lined up when I reduced them.

If instead you are re-using the frozen clips in a seperate track, you might as well delete the original MIDI track altogether. The forzen clips will still be there in the browser ready for use. In effect you have batch-rendered all the clips in the track and no longer need the frozen track at all. You can simply insert and arrange the frozen renders as you want them in the arrangement.

ok, but in my opinion the main idea of freeze is the ability to constantly switch between midi and frozen parts. what is the point of it if you delete the midi track? A normal render would do in this case.

[headquest]

i see. can you then hide the original frozen track?

Assuming you are still using the frozen track as the sound source you probably wouldn't want to hide it because there are elements that you can still adjust - volume, pan, send amounts, crossfader, etc. In session view though you can horizonally rescale the width of any channel in version 5, simply by dragging the edge. On my 15.4" monitor I was able to have 65 mixer strips lined up when I reduced them.

If instead you are re-using the frozen clips in a seperate track, you might as well delete the original MIDI track altogether. The forzen clips will still be there in the browser ready for use. In effect you have batch-rendered all the clips in the track and no longer need the frozen track at all. You can simply insert and arrange the frozen renders as you want them in the arrangement.

ok, but in my opinion the main idea of freeze is the ability to constantly switch between midi and frozen parts. what is the point of it if you delete the midi track? A normal render would do in this case.

Yes, I take your point. In the second of my examples above, this is essentially a workaround for "render in place", which Live doesn't have in either v4 or the new v5. So freezing a track and then using the frozen audio clips is a powerful addition to the Live feature set at this point.

Going back to my first example though, I think Live's freeze does pretty much what you want it to do. Live 5 *does* allow you to move frozen clips around either by re-recording the arrangement "live" from the Session view into the Arrangement view (which is Live's basic paradigm, of course ) or by dragging the clips around within the frozen Arrangement. Either way though, because the arrangement has been changed, you need to re-freeze the track when you are done, which is surely quite logical anyway? Refreezing the track is a simple matter of right clicking and selecting freeze, so hardly an ardous task!

I hope this helps. It's a little hard to explain/describe Live's way of doing things with just words and no pictures, especially because as ever the Ableton approach is different from the others - it looks, feels and works differently.

The demo version of Live 5 will be available later in the month, so check it out and see what you think

[René]

Well mates...after slogging through this entire thread I remain convinced that there is nothing quite like the efficiency of bouncing the track.

The functionality of freeze is basically bounce, with a few shortcuts to make it faster. If you'd use bounce to track in most hosts featuring freeze, you should:

1- Save a program for the Synthesizer in the track
2- Bounce to track
3- Unload the Synthesizer (disconnect won't make it)
4- Disconnect every effect/bypass the track

Then when you'd like to 'unfreeze', you'd need to:

1- Manually insert the Synthesizer
2- Load the program you saved in (1) previously.
3- Mute the audio track you bounced
4- Reconnect all effects/resume the track

This is not the end of the world, but it takes some substantial time.


-René

[Sascha Franck]

1- Save a program for the Synthesizer in the track
2- Bounce to track
3- Unload the Synthesizer (disconnect won't make it)
4- Disconnect every effect/bypass the track

Not entirely true.
Unless I need to free up RAM used by any samples, in Logic all I have to do is to bypass a plugin and it won't use up anymore CPU power.

[René]

Unless I need to free up RAM used by any samples, in Logic all I have to do is to bypass a plugin and it won't use up anymore CPU power.

Freezing is basically a tool to save CPU and RAM. It will allow the user to have more tracks with synthesizers and effects.

If we analyze the functionality in a broad sense, we need to take *everything* into account, resource saving and workflow. My comparison is intended to replicate exactly what you get when you Freeze vs. when you Bounce, so I don't see why it would be not entirely true.

Then there's the 'but *I* don't need....' particular case analysis. You might not need to recover the RAM, then you can skip two steps, (still faster). You might not even need to recover the CPU, then you could save more steps. Anyone with a particular subset of requirements will opt for the host best suited for his/her job.

In *my* particular case, RAM saving is 70% of the need for freeze, even with 2GB installed. In Sonar, freezing/unfreezing is one click, either if you want the RAM saving or not.

-René

[Jaeson Merrill]

I don't need no stinkin' freeeeeeeze! I work within the limits of my environment. In fact I could probably get away with half the CPU power I have at my disposal so I am constantly amazed at how important this seems to so many. I just can't imagine what it would take to overload my CPU.

*clap clap*

we're all very proud of you.

now, back to those who do music that requires hi quality eq plugins and reverbs and compression and what not that takes up tons of cpu