KVR Audio

womoma · Post by **womoma** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:55 am

Hey. Ive not been at this for that long and Im still a bit miffed at the drum programming situation in Sonar. I mean, I can use battery as a drum sampler but it doesnt have a step sequencer/redrum style sequencer.. then theres microtonic but that is pretty much an analogue drum machine. Ive tried rewiring P5 and reason but that is just hassle.

Ive had a look at Guru and it seems interesting, as does Ruction.

Id like to ask any Sonar users here how they prefer creating quick nice beats.

Also has anyone used "Slicey drummer" midi effect which offers a step sequencer type of thing which can be used in conjunction with battery..

the whole situation is boggin me down a bit.

cheers.

1979.2 · Post by **1979.2** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:49 am

Slicy drummer is superb, really good for drums. I use it as a plug in sonar.

Would like a step sequencer for my loops as well, I hate the piano roll editor!

WillieJenkins · Post by **WillieJenkins** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:49 pm

womoma,

amen brother.

Drums is the one thing that Sonar doesnt' seemingly handle well. The midi implementation is amazing for large sample libraries (track folders, midi cc's etc etc)

For drums I want something realtime that I can just loop and build as I go. For this reason I've decided on Live5 for doing ALL my drum programming.

This isn't a solution per se, but rather just an explanation of how I approach it.

I hated programming drums in Sonar, so I feel your pain.

tetraplan · Post by **tetraplan** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:55 pm

Hmmm, no problem here. But maybe it depends on the kind of drums you want to play.
I either program them by mouse, or copy-paste samples on the right tracks. Hit ctrl-L and you're done.

Groet, Erik

esl · Post by **esl** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:23 pm

1979.2 wrote:Slicy drummer is superb, really good for drums. I use it as a plug in sonar.

do you use slicy drummer with battery? does that work well?

esl · Post by **esl** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:25 pm

womoma wrote: Id like to ask any Sonar users here how they prefer creating quick nice beats.

Hey I don't really have an answer for you, but you might want to check out the active Sonar forum over at Cakewalk.

1979.2 · Post by **1979.2** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:31 pm

yeah iv tested with battery and it works good. You can make loops pretty much in real time by just playin an empty midi track and tinkering away.

I wouldnt make loops live though cos it pauses.

saturdaysaint · Post by **saturdaysaint** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:55 pm

Have you tried creating drum maps? Drum maps look like the piano roll, but are actually a LOT simpler to use for beat creation - less fiddling with MIDI notes and much easier to adjust velocity.

womoma · Post by **womoma** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:35 pm

wow- im glad this thread got someones attention. I was expecting it to fall on deaf ears.

Yes, I have just started using slicey drummer with battery in sonar and it is doing a good job so far.
I have my own custom battery patch and was able to create an instrument definition text file for slicey drummer [e.g.- 14: 909 bass 15: hard bass: 16: rock snare and so on] It is quick and interesting but a bit too random sometimes.

you might want to check out the active Sonar forum over at Cakewalk

In the year or so that Ive been using Sonar, cakewalk forums have been the least helpfull, especially when it comes to more general discussion.

Regarding drums maps, Ive never gotten my head around them much, Ill have another gander this evening. I do sometimes use the pattern brush tool..

Still.. I think Ill start saving for fxpansion Guru.
It looks fkn gr8. Shame there is yet no cheap/free alternative.

[/quote]

Dr.Mabuse · Post by **Dr.Mabuse** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:32 pm

If you use Stepbeater in the DirectiXer VST-wrapper with the midi loopback function you get an easy and (almost) free way to make decent beats in Sonar. Just send the loopback midi into you favorite drummachine....

You can find Stepbeater here : http://frii.com/~saffleck/stepbeater.html

And DirectiXer is here : http://www.tonewise.com/DirectiXer/

Hope this helps...

-TM

1979.2 · Post by **1979.2** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:08 am

Nice! Some good ideas for ez beats in sonar. i`m goin to try stepbeater.

Guru looks good. I like the MPC style set up

TeeLangSun · Post by **TeeLangSun** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:39 am

WillieJenkins wrote:womoma,

amen brother.

Drums is the one thing that Sonar doesnt' seemingly handle well. The midi implementation is amazing for large sample libraries (track folders, midi cc's etc etc)

For drums I want something realtime that I can just loop and build as I go. For this reason I've decided on Live5 for doing ALL my drum programming.

This isn't a solution per se, but rather just an explanation of how I approach it.

I hated programming drums in Sonar, so I feel your pain.

The problem with drum programming in Sonar for me was the piano roll and the "less than smooth" audio engine.

saturdaysaint · Post by **saturdaysaint** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:59 am

Yeah, to be honest I mostly use Project 5 2.0 for drums because the engine is so much smoother and it comes with an easier to use pattern browser. Keep checking the Cakewalk site though, because the next patch (4.03) will supposedly make Sonar as gapless as Project 5!

tranceglobal · Post by **tranceglobal** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:15 am

I select about 8-10 midi tracks at once, all set to my Proteus 2500, micro-Q, or software synths for drums, and edit them on a single piano roll(grid view) in loop mode.

Secondly, I have a roland SPD-S drum pad for drumming 'live' input into the sequencer on any drum channel.

I find the drum map also an excellent tool in Sonar, as it handles velocity editing, etc, better than the normal piano grid view.

Thats how I do it.......

Regards,

Dave

Moe Shinola · Post by **Moe Shinola** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:48 am

I have custon drum maps for several RM III kits I made with the ProSamples Real Drum Kits. The drum map is a good tool. I just put the kick, snares, toms, hats and crashes on separate tracks so I can set levels and then record onto a stereo track. I'll do this for each verse, intro, outtro, and any bridge or solo parts, each of those getting it's own track, then line them up in order and record one stereo track. I'll have to buy DirectXer, I guess. Opening Stepbeater with the Cakewalk adapter crashes Sonar. Unless I'm doing something wrong, of course. I tried using it as an audio effect until I realized it was MIDI, then tried putting it into the Shared MIDI Plugins folder but Sonar would not see it. DirectXer is sounding more and more like the best solution.

sonar user - beats-- battery? rewire project 5?