KVR Audio

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:02 am

I've just discovered the Creamware line and am having to rely on reviews and opinions about the software.

Does anyone own the Creamware Project card (formerly Pulsar II) and know specifically about the bundled software, including the synthesizers, in terms of quality?

You can choose either the Mix N' Master or the Synths N' Samplers bundle with a Project card, if anyone knows what's included in either of those.

I'm looking for opinions about quality of the effects versus those available from UAD and Sonalksis, since those would be the alternatives if I didn't go for Creamware. I'm also looking for general opinions about the synths, for instance the Modular line, compared to, say GMedia's synths.

Thanks for any help you can give,
Dave

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:05 am

Also, Creamware offers GSIF drivers, but does anyone know if they have GSIF 2.0?

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:19 am

I had a Pulsar II for a while and ultimately sold it. The synths sound brilliant - easily as good as the best vsts, if not better. You pay for this in dsp load though. I figured I'd have to buy another expansion card to run as many instances as I'd want. The interface and drivers were a little fiddly too and I never got XTC mode working well. You have to use the Creamware synths a bit more like a hardware synth.

Overall an expensive and somewhat complicated system but the quality is excellent. Tradeoffs, as usual. I was also a little worried about the longterm stability of Creamware and the increasing age of their DSP chips relative to mainstream processors but they seem to have found some new life recently.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:36 am

I've had the Pulsar II since 2001. I wouldn't trade it for the world. The synths are brilliant. Everything that kuniklo said I agree with except the drivers being fiddly, as they've always worked here without issue in 2 different boxes.

The Modular is VERY smooth for the filter. I do find it an extreme pain the ass to work with though. Great sound either way.

I also have a UAD-1 card. I'd rather use the UAD-1 for effects, as they are better, but then again, I havne't tried the 'pay to play' mastering plugs either, like Vinco or Psy-Q, etc.

Devon

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:27 am

DevonB wrote:I've had the Pulsar II since 2001. I wouldn't trade it for the world. The synths are brilliant. Everything that kuniklo said I agree with except the drivers being fiddly, as they've always worked here without issue in 2 different boxes.

The Modular is VERY smooth for the filter. I do find it an extreme pain the ass to work with though. Great sound either way.

I also have a UAD-1 card. I'd rather use the UAD-1 for effects, as they are better, but then again, I havne't tried the 'pay to play' mastering plugs either, like Vinco or Psy-Q, etc.

Devon

Thanks to both of you.

Devon, do you know about the Mix'N'Master bundle, which includes MasterVerb Pro? If so, do you own it or any of the effects on it?

I would definitely be using this card both for effects and synths, so if it only offered good synths, I'd be inclined to go for the SynthsN'Samplers bundle (you get one or the other standard with Scope Project).

Edit: nevermind, I missed your last sentence. By "pay to play" I assume you're talking about the new round of plugs, most or all of which are probably included in the bundle with the new cards.

Anyone else tried this new round of Creamware effects?

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:30 am

kuniklo wrote:I had a Pulsar II for a while and ultimately sold it. The synths sound brilliant - easily as good as the best vsts, if not better. You pay for this in dsp load though. I figured I'd have to buy another expansion card to run as many instances as I'd want. The interface and drivers were a little fiddly too and I never got XTC mode working well. You have to use the Creamware synths a bit more like a hardware synth.

Overall an expensive and somewhat complicated system but the quality is excellent. Tradeoffs, as usual. I was also a little worried about the longterm stability of Creamware and the increasing age of their DSP chips relative to mainstream processors but they seem to have found some new life recently.

Did you like the effects on yours, like the EQ's. comps, and 'verbs?

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:46 am

Frippertronix wrote: Did you like the effects on yours, like the EQ's. comps, and 'verbs?

I didn't really spend much time with them, since I mainly got it for the synths.

Cabinfever · Post by **Cabinfever** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:17 am

details on packs & current special here:
http://www.cwaudio.de/index.php?seite=p ... 05&lang=en

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:19 am

Frippertronix wrote:Anyone else tried this new round of Creamware effects?

Since I'm not a Creamware user I obviously have no idea,but upon investigating these cards I hear they can't be used as plugins "within" your host,but rather outside of your host which held my interest off.I could be somewhat wrong here but I'd like an explanation myself.

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:24 am

Alan wrote:
Frippertronix wrote:Anyone else tried this new round of Creamware effects?
Since I'm not a Creamware user I obviously have no idea,but upon investigating these cards I hear they can't be used as plugins "within" your host,but rather outside of your host which held my interest off.I could be somewhat wrong here but I'd like an explanation myself.

From what I was reading about the new cards at least, they are widely host compatible, and can also be used in what they call XTC mode, where they function just like the UAD-1 and you can use your existing soundcard for I/O.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:02 am

Ok,after some Googling it appears that most but not all effects can be used in XTC mode,and some but not all synths can be used in XTC mode,and XTC must be used with ASIO and cannot be used with WDM or MME drivers and must be preconfigured.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:17 am

Alan wrote:Ok,after some Googling it appears that most but not all effects can be used in XTC mode,and some but not all synths can be used in XTC mode,and XTC must be used with ASIO and cannot be used with WDM or MME drivers and must be preconfigured.

I found XTC didn't really work entirely as advertised. Problems and unexpected bugs etc. This may have been fixed since I tried it but you might want to spend some time on their forums to see what the state of all that is.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:26 am

At the moment if you buy a card you can get the other pack for just 100 euro so it may be worth it.

http://www.cwaudio.de/

I bought mine for the synths (especialy the Modular and several third party ones) but some of the effects like Vinco and there are some amazing reverbs made by Timeworks are very highly rated. XTC mode is not half as difficult as I'd been told but I still prefer to use the standard mode as it means you can play the synths and effects in realtime - no latency at all - something the other cards do not offer (hence PDC etc).

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:57 am

I've got a Pulsar 2, but never use XTC mode. I didn't have much luck getting it to work with Sonar. It's not an issue at all though, as aMUSED mentioned, standard mode works great. You just have to think of them as hardware synths, it's very easy to work with once you understand a few basics. I do like the effects, but more than anything it's the synths that blew me away. They really do sound great. Also, there are TONS of free 3rd party goodies out there, not to mention some outstanding 3rd party synths for sale that pretty much blow away every vst out there as far as sound quality goes. John Bowen's Solaris is easily my favorite. The only thing that's kept me from buying a 14 dsp SRB is the fact that I migrated to mac...CWA and the newer macs do not mix.

brianbrian · Post by **brianbrian** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:19 am

There are some seriously good effects out for Creamware cards. I went with the Synths/Samplers pack since I already had 2 UAD-1 cards. If you go ahead with the purchase, I would consider these effects essential! :

spacef ECHO3 - the most full featured delay/echo I have ever used. Dual delays, cross feedback, ping pong, spectral delay, ducking, inserts in the feedback path and inserts pre/post delay, individual filters/inserts for each channel (l/r), tons of modulation options, pitch shifting, etc. This is a beast, although the website doesn't seem to be up now, and I don't know if you can buy this effect alone anymore (I got mine a year ago but it appears to be available in the spaceF Black Box package.)

SPL Transient Designer - pretty self-explanitory I'd say...insanely easy to control, and an alternative to using compression to bring out very controlled amounts of punch, or adding sustain to room mics, etc, reducing ambience from a close mic. Makes drum mixing easier and faster. There should be links for this @ the Creamware online shop.

Celmo Echoreq2 - maybe not essential, but basically a recreation of the old Italian Binson Echoreq unit, a really interesting echo effect. Awesome on guitars and keys, used by Pink Floyd (see them all over the Live @ Pompeii video) & Zeppelin. It has several delay tap patterns and a cool "swell" mode that can be used almost like a verb, or adjusted to create dramatic echo swells.

relab/STW P100/A100/I100/CD100 - Some of the best reverbs to ever come to a DAW. These are the Rich Plate, Random Ambience, and Inverse algorithms, based on the Lex PCM91. Yes, these do sound 95% identical to the hardware, but they eat up DSP like crazy. IRs simply can't touch these verbs, with all the modulation options and LFO/ENV links to most all of the parameters. Very smooth and rich sounding. What is really amazing is that when you buy the P100, you get the CD100 dynamic chorus-delay thrown in for free, which I would pay the full P100 price for. This has a very nice stereo widener, 6 voice chorus, and multitap delay, with all kinds of feedback and modulation options, and 3 types of diffusion in the delay feedback. Actually, the new IK CSR verb was designed by the same guy who did these CW plugs...I guess the CSR is based on these algorithms but with a few improvements (but without the CD100).

Here are some pics of the P100:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... &start=100

I think if you page through that same thread there are screenshots of the CD100....holy crap that thing has a lot of parameters...

General Creamware questions