right- quick question about legality..

[womoma]

Hi.
Im only recently coming to terms with the fact that samples make my music sound much much better so want to use some more samples.

Im pretty scared of getting into trouble so can someone clarify the Dos and Donts in about two sentences for me- that would be great.

As far as I know, some things, such as public domain broadcasts, are free to be sampled, but to sample an old jazz record is just askin for trouble, unless u recycle it beyond recognition.. any thoughts?? thanks..

[Gregjazz]

Hi.
Im only recently coming to terms with the fact that samples make my music sound much much better so want to use some more samples.

Im pretty scared of getting into trouble so can someone clarify the Dos and Donts in about two sentences for me- that would be great.

As far as I know, some things, such as public domain broadcasts, are free to be sampled, but to sample an old jazz record is just askin for trouble, unless u recycle it beyond recognition.. any thoughts?? thanks..

There used to be a law like "if you can't recognize it, you can use it," but in the last year things have gotten stricter. You might want to look into the sampling laws they have for Hiphop and such.

[Left Headphone]

but to sample an old jazz record is just askin for trouble, unless u recycle it beyond recognition.. any thoughts?? thanks..

Don't do it... trust me.... You will get sued beyond belief.

If your song is a hit, they will hunt you down... The music industry is cracking down on everybody... but good luck anyway

[declassified]

but to sample an old jazz record is just askin for trouble, unless u recycle it beyond recognition.. any thoughts?? thanks..

Don't do it... trust me.... You will get sued beyond belief.

If your song is a hit, they will hunt you down... The music industry is cracking down on everybody... but good luck anyway

What if you don't sell our music or only publish it to a few people?
And do you really expect to make "a hit" in the future?

Would you pay $20 to lend a baseball bat so you could force someone to give you back the 10$ he stole you?

[deleted]

DELETED

[learjeff]

Not sure what you mean by "public domain broadcasts". Braodcasting doesn't put anything in the public domain.

I think you're really only taking a risk if you go big time (and you should be so lucky). As a small-timer, like most of us here, if they contact you and ask you to desist, and you do, that's probably the end of it. And unlikely at that.

However, you can very easily be 100% legit. Just go to songfile.com (Harry Fox Agency) and get a "compulsory license" (a.k.a. "mechanical") for about $40 per song, good for up to 500 copies. (Or pay more for more.)

That mechanism is intended for redistributing or covering a song, not for using samples. As such, it's really too pricey for sample usage, unless you only use a few samples per CD (!) Also, the cost is per song unless the song (or rather, your playing of it) is less than about 4:40, and you pay more after that.

Unfortunately, you don't get a break if you only use 10 seconds of it. Things haven't been going this way, but I'd like to see a similar thing set up for sampling, with costs commensurate with the way sampling is used (in snippets). It wouldn't be trivial to figure out a reasonable way to calculate the cost, but if we had it I think it would generate money for copyright owners.

[womoma]

thanks for the posts people.

one final thing.

please dont shoot me for not knowing the answer to this question. Is there anywhere where I can get my hands on some cheap/free royalty-free samples. I know CM gives away free samples on its DVD but Id love to be able to find more.

cheers.

[tee boy]

First thing, get yourself over to Sp3d's Auditorium for loads of great free sounds.


Back to the question, you can sample whatever you like in your bedroom! You'll get problems when a record becomes a mainstream hit (as Declassified mentioned earlier). If its unreleased or just a small release then dont worry. Listen, dance artists use samples all the time. They dont clear a thing on the inital release. Only if a major takes it up and puts it into the highstreet shops do the samples get cleared.

Some people never clear samples. Half of the samples you find on sample CD's arent cleared. So it also pays to use you're noggin a little bit. For example, if you've nicked a fairly mundane hihat sound, then I wouldnt lose much sleep! Vocals and destinctive phrases are the ones to be careful of.

Believe me, worry about making a great track first. Dot your i's and cross your t's as and when necessary.


PS. None of this applies if your using a sample of mine. In this case you must pay up in full before making the track.

[learjeff]

At the top of this forum there's a big list of sample sites. Happy hunting!

[womoma]

good point tee boy.- its like i have this wierd fear that Ill get a track that some small label wont publish coz it uses some sample. Ive only been doing this about a year, I should really just get on with things, and say fk it if i use a sample.- like you say, if a big record company wanted to publish a song they would probly clear a sample- sure look at 2many djs - its a total mash up. Another person said that getting sued wud be good publicity- hehe good point too.

[Max el Belga]

Sometimes it makes me a bit angry ! Young people nearly have to get a university diploma to find out how to express their creativity within legality ! Because some jerks are afraid that someone might pick in a € or a $. They should be proud that a little teenyweeny bit of their "product" has inspired someone else ! If this doesn´t change I´ll take a copyright on : do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, si, and everything in between, and give complete freedom to use them ! That´ll f**k them up and keep them quite for a while... (that was a relief !)

[tee boy]

To right, its f**king bullshit!

The copyright laws exsist to stop me from copying a CD and selling it at a cut down price - not to stifle creativity.

If an artist were to create a huge collauge from millions of tiny magazine clippings, they would be infringing copyright laws. But no one would say a f**king bean about it. Yet when a musician samples millions of tiny audio segments and transforms them into an amazing sonic masterpiece, they're held liable!

And unfortunately this mentality is RIFE on this board, rife I tell thee! Iv seen people get flamed as warez users for merely offering to share a sampled breaks pack... insanity! Thats like me giving my hypothetical artist a few old magazines to work with - hardly flexing the boundries of morality

Now, if you're talking about sampling in the Daftpunk or Norman Cook sense of the word, then that is a different matter. Creating a remix from sampled parts is not creating an original work. In these cases they original artist does deserve credit imo.
But artists who use samples only as source material for their own sonic creations should be thrown a bone me thinks.

But that takes us onto the whole 'where do you draw the line' argument... a deep dark place that none of us wishes to visit.

[womoma]

im enjoying getting peoples views here.

Im gonna stop being so afraid to use the occassional copyright infringing loop.

I guess it would be just good practice to keep notes of any origional material one uses. I have an old spanish guitar loop from ages ago which i stupidly renamed, now I dont even remember who the artist was, but want to use this nice loop in a track.

What I find about using samples is that it adds a touch of humanity to my tracks, rather than they be basic GM style infomercial jingles lol.


tee boy- interesting point about the mentality of many forum users. I have to say, when I first started doin this music thing about a year ago, I didnt realise how many anal people I would encounter on various forums. KVR seems to have nicer posters than some other forums which I better not name.
I presumed all music people would be cool. But so many are wierd anal do-gooders.

In my opinion, if a 15 year old kid from East London is using a warez version to learn Project 5, I dont give a damn. Im not gonna slate the kid. He is breaking the law, but hes not doin much harm.
Anyway, lets not turn this thread into "one of those" threads.

Back to samples, I must get myself a decent mic and record some of my own samples.

[hollowsun]

In my opinion, if a 15 year old kid from East London is using a warez version to learn Project 5, I dont give a damn. Im not gonna slate the kid. He is breaking the law, but hes not doin much harm.

In the overall scheme of things, no - I don't suppose he is. But for Cakewalk, it's a lost sale = lost revenue = inability to support the product = sack some staff = inability to develop new products = no products = end user is f*cked!!!

If said 15-yr-old goes out and buys a copy once he's got a feel for it through the warez version, fine - in that case, the crack has served as a promotional tool. The reality is that he probably won't.

Besides which, almost every developer provides legal demos to try out to evaluate their product(s) - they may (understandably) have some 'limitation' but.... there is simply no need (or justification) for using cracked warez for 'evaluation'. The only reason for using such shite is to bite the hand that feeds you!

Christ - when will you people wake up and see the long term picture?! IT COSTS MONEY TO DEVELOP THE PRODUCTS YOU DEPEND UPON!!!

Harrrrumph

[Spe3D]

Christ - when will you people wake up and see the long term picture?! IT COSTS MONEY TO DEVELOP THE PRODUCTS YOU DEPEND UPON!!!

Harrrrumph

Because they think – as all these guys act independently of one another there will always be someone else to fill the gap left by someone who gives up producing software.

I think (being someone who provides free services as well as paid) you need to find a way of filtering out the guys who would benefit from having said free products if they cannot afford it etc. and get rid or block the guys who just download and use for the sake of it (coz it is there and easy, mentality)

Overall the bigger developers are taking a close look at the (we have made it easy for you and our customers) now because of the growing percentage that cannot even give a simple (thank you or feedback where required) the developers and providers are thinking (OK – we will develop tools that tie into the product that are not easy to use a more intrusive unlock system – or put the price up and stop free etc)

Will the scale in the future become – no free products and only paid for products and those that you do pay for are 1, expensive 2, damn intrusive

Who knows – what I do know is that the bulk of developers and providers are getting tired of the overall mentality of the net.

But personally I think those that participate and give feedback etc are worth more than their weight in gold and these are the guys you need to cherish when new rules and products come out – don’t leave them in the dark, target your audience and reward those that support you – simple solution.

Oh! And eventually stop moaning about it – accept it and move on with focus and a better idea of the net markets etc.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)