WRONG!foosnark wrote:There are enough dance songs in the world. Make something else!
There are more rap/pop/rock songs in the world then anything else.
i CANT MAKE A DANCE SONG!!!
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- KVRist
- 61 posts since 6 Jun, 2003 from uk
So many ppl who think dance music is easy to produce.... that may be true to a certain extent, but to do it well takes skill and knowledge, just like any other style.
:: The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return ::
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
2 years
you haven't danced in 2 years
did you pick up the 'Dance Music Manual'
an comprehensive, expanded version of soulkraka's formula for a variety of modern genre
you haven't danced in 2 years
did you pick up the 'Dance Music Manual'
an comprehensive, expanded version of soulkraka's formula for a variety of modern genre
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- KVRian
- 1144 posts since 9 Jan, 2004 from tOKYO
ya...they stole a bunch of my techniques....bastardswrench45us wrote: did you pick up the 'Dance Music Manual'
an comprehensive, expanded version of soulkraka's formula for a variety of modern genre
Not bad meaning bad but bad meaning good
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- KVRist
- 250 posts since 22 Jun, 2004 from NYC
Actually, I am going to digress and get flamed...
It is actually fairly difficult to make an "interesting" dance track.
The formulaic stuff is not that difficult......it definitely follows soulkraka's formula. But it is when making something that is a little more interesting, that is difficult. Syncopated bass-lines (that are not psy-trance like) that are funky and interesting in their own right....melodies that are intriguing, drums and percussion that aren't lazy....
That is the more difficult stuff....definitely do-able, but not as formulaic.
my .02
It is actually fairly difficult to make an "interesting" dance track.
The formulaic stuff is not that difficult......it definitely follows soulkraka's formula. But it is when making something that is a little more interesting, that is difficult. Syncopated bass-lines (that are not psy-trance like) that are funky and interesting in their own right....melodies that are intriguing, drums and percussion that aren't lazy....
That is the more difficult stuff....definitely do-able, but not as formulaic.
my .02
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
there used to be a signature line by someone here at kvr that said something like
genres are for people who know what they're doing
it is hard to make original, engaging music within a strict formula, but some manage to do it consistently
my strict formula is based more on my own limits more than any recognizable popular genre
genres are for people who know what they're doing
it is hard to make original, engaging music within a strict formula, but some manage to do it consistently
my strict formula is based more on my own limits more than any recognizable popular genre
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- KVRist
- 209 posts since 31 Dec, 2004
If its so easy to make dance/trance tunes then why aren't you doing it? Huh? there is so much money in it and the young eurochicks will love u!
If its so easy!
Huh, there is always these people who say dance music is easy and theory is necessary to make good music, well, if thats the case then everyone would be doing it. As you can probably tell from your own experience. Its f**king hard to make something GOOD, hello its got to be good not just for you its got to be good for those candytrippers and savy club goes and those armany and DKNY chicks at crowbar. And todays crowd is tough.
When was the last time you went to a club? you think people don't know good from ok tracks? Think again, go out to a party stay till 5-6 am and then see what peopel dig at that time. Thats when they play the crazy good stiz. Cause its got to keep people grooving...
If its so easy!
Huh, there is always these people who say dance music is easy and theory is necessary to make good music, well, if thats the case then everyone would be doing it. As you can probably tell from your own experience. Its f**king hard to make something GOOD, hello its got to be good not just for you its got to be good for those candytrippers and savy club goes and those armany and DKNY chicks at crowbar. And todays crowd is tough.
When was the last time you went to a club? you think people don't know good from ok tracks? Think again, go out to a party stay till 5-6 am and then see what peopel dig at that time. Thats when they play the crazy good stiz. Cause its got to keep people grooving...
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- KVRist
- 250 posts since 22 Jun, 2004 from NYC
Um, chill dude. I am trying to write. In fact, I am probably more on your side than a bunch of folks here who will use the terms "tarnce" etc....
And yes, I go clubbing regularly. I also know from listening to countless tracks trying to pick good, original stuff to DJ that there is a lot of crap out there. There are a lot of tracks that will rarely, to never, get played out. There are many here who could probably string together something of this sort relatively quickly.
That's being said. There are people, even here, who don't listen to the genre much, or don't listen to what you listen to....I agree that it is difficult to make an inspiring dance track. I am not talking about the crap you here on the radio, but really decent stuff that actually took a bit of work.
But, I think that your arguments are a little poor. "So much money in it and the young eurochicks will love you!" This is not the reason to begin this undertaking because the reality is that very very few people will ever get that, even the deserving ones!?!? Especially because the DJs get all the fame, when the people writing the tracks don't.
You also must realize that I have very discerning friends who are tired of a lot of what is getting played at clubs....Here in the US and NYC, trance/proghouse/techno have been gaining popularity again in the past few years, but we are hearing many of the same tracks being spun by many of the big-name DJs coming through. Pointing to two things.....they are pandering to people who want to hear these "popular" tracks, but also that it is difficult to find really, really good tracks.
So,
The best advice was already given in this thread. Take some of the tracks that you like, try to emulate them....and then use this knowledge to blow up your own tracks....
Cheers,
AB
And yes, I go clubbing regularly. I also know from listening to countless tracks trying to pick good, original stuff to DJ that there is a lot of crap out there. There are a lot of tracks that will rarely, to never, get played out. There are many here who could probably string together something of this sort relatively quickly.
That's being said. There are people, even here, who don't listen to the genre much, or don't listen to what you listen to....I agree that it is difficult to make an inspiring dance track. I am not talking about the crap you here on the radio, but really decent stuff that actually took a bit of work.
But, I think that your arguments are a little poor. "So much money in it and the young eurochicks will love you!" This is not the reason to begin this undertaking because the reality is that very very few people will ever get that, even the deserving ones!?!? Especially because the DJs get all the fame, when the people writing the tracks don't.
You also must realize that I have very discerning friends who are tired of a lot of what is getting played at clubs....Here in the US and NYC, trance/proghouse/techno have been gaining popularity again in the past few years, but we are hearing many of the same tracks being spun by many of the big-name DJs coming through. Pointing to two things.....they are pandering to people who want to hear these "popular" tracks, but also that it is difficult to find really, really good tracks.
So,
The best advice was already given in this thread. Take some of the tracks that you like, try to emulate them....and then use this knowledge to blow up your own tracks....
Cheers,
AB
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- KVRist
- 250 posts since 22 Jun, 2004 from NYC
PS.
It is true, there isn't that much music theory in dance music, but there is definitely the need for some...
Production value is one of the most important things...so either learn to produce by reading books and experimenting with compression, eqing, etc....or write some tracks and pay some $$$$ to get a real engineer mix your stuff.
It is true, there isn't that much music theory in dance music, but there is definitely the need for some...
Production value is one of the most important things...so either learn to produce by reading books and experimenting with compression, eqing, etc....or write some tracks and pay some $$$$ to get a real engineer mix your stuff.
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- KVRAF
- 2058 posts since 23 Sep, 2004 from Canada
I'll have to stick up for Wrench on this one.
I don't write dance music myself though I like alot of old skool tunes.
IE:
FSOL - Papua New Guinea
BassHeads - Is there Anybody Out There
808 State - Pacific 202
Rythm is Ryhtm - Chaotic harmony
A Guy Called Gerald - Voodoo Ray
Baby Ford - Ooochie Koochie
Stakker - Humanoid
KLF - What time is Love / 3 am Eternal etc...
Orb - Little Fluffy Clouds
Olive - Your Not Alone
Felix - Stars
LFO - LFO
Bomb da Bass - Bug Powder Dust (actually that whole album is rather good)
Faithless - Insomnia (though they are a killer live act)
basement jaxx - first two albums
Underworld - the whole of Dubnobasswithmyheadman is still damn amazing as are tracks like Nuxx , Born Slippy ,Dark Train , Cups , Leutin etc etc ...
Early Jilted Generation Prodigy - Voodoo People and No Good Start the Dance (for example) .
Orbital - The Brown Album and Snivilization still get played ALOT at home here.
As do certain Sabre's of Paradise , early Warp releases and lots of early house & acid house material. (I have a rather huge vinyl collection which I'm quite proud to say I've never sampled).
I use to spend hours with my hardware synths and sequncers learning how all this stuff was programmed from scratch. Much fun too be had trust me.
Bizzare Incorporated - Playing with Knives
Blue Pearl - Naked in the Rain
Tonnes of Satoshi Tomi , Franki Knuckles , Carter , May , Aitkins , Aux 88 , Undeground Resistance material.
Old Wax Traxx , FFrr , Acid Trax and early Artificial Intelligence releases.
Even some older Astral Projection , Juno Reaktor , Infected Mushroom etc ...
All still holds up very well.
Not to mention early High Energy artists like Sylvester and 80's acts like Heaven 17 , cabaret voltaire , front 242 , yazoo , depeche mode , DARE era Human League , Severed Heads , Yello etc etc who where quite literal the soundtrack to my teenage years.
I could not imagine being a teenager again without DM / The Cab's and Yello inparticular actually.
Tracks like No Ufo's , Knights of the Jaguar and early detroit techno and mid 80's electro material.
Most if not all of it IMHO still holds up very well indeed .
Not much of it sounds very samey or similar though and there was an obvious stylistic difference from artist too artist.
Something that is somewhat lacking these days IMHO.
To many me too I can sound the same type tracks.
So yeah a great dance track is definately somewhat of a fine art for what it's worth.
I was probably lucky enough like many here to be old enough to have started clubbing etc around 85.
And seen ALOT of great stuff pop up on the underground etc...
Though I also absolutely loved going to places like the crappy Fringe Club in Elizabeth Street , Locomotion , Subterain , Check Point Charley , Zuzus , Taboo etc that had a harder indie , industrial , punk and somewhat twisted sense of what dance music was and could be.
Lots of IggyPop / 70's Bowie and other oddball stuff was always getting thrown in the mix for a good laugh.
You kind of get too old for clubs in your late 30's IMHO.
And I listen to tonnes of Jazz , Kraut Rock , Indie , Classical and all sorts of avante guarde and in between stuff these days anyway.
I don't write dance music myself though I like alot of old skool tunes.
IE:
FSOL - Papua New Guinea
BassHeads - Is there Anybody Out There
808 State - Pacific 202
Rythm is Ryhtm - Chaotic harmony
A Guy Called Gerald - Voodoo Ray
Baby Ford - Ooochie Koochie
Stakker - Humanoid
KLF - What time is Love / 3 am Eternal etc...
Orb - Little Fluffy Clouds
Olive - Your Not Alone
Felix - Stars
LFO - LFO
Bomb da Bass - Bug Powder Dust (actually that whole album is rather good)
Faithless - Insomnia (though they are a killer live act)
basement jaxx - first two albums
Underworld - the whole of Dubnobasswithmyheadman is still damn amazing as are tracks like Nuxx , Born Slippy ,Dark Train , Cups , Leutin etc etc ...
Early Jilted Generation Prodigy - Voodoo People and No Good Start the Dance (for example) .
Orbital - The Brown Album and Snivilization still get played ALOT at home here.
As do certain Sabre's of Paradise , early Warp releases and lots of early house & acid house material. (I have a rather huge vinyl collection which I'm quite proud to say I've never sampled).
I use to spend hours with my hardware synths and sequncers learning how all this stuff was programmed from scratch. Much fun too be had trust me.
Bizzare Incorporated - Playing with Knives
Blue Pearl - Naked in the Rain
Tonnes of Satoshi Tomi , Franki Knuckles , Carter , May , Aitkins , Aux 88 , Undeground Resistance material.
Old Wax Traxx , FFrr , Acid Trax and early Artificial Intelligence releases.
Even some older Astral Projection , Juno Reaktor , Infected Mushroom etc ...
All still holds up very well.
Not to mention early High Energy artists like Sylvester and 80's acts like Heaven 17 , cabaret voltaire , front 242 , yazoo , depeche mode , DARE era Human League , Severed Heads , Yello etc etc who where quite literal the soundtrack to my teenage years.
I could not imagine being a teenager again without DM / The Cab's and Yello inparticular actually.
Tracks like No Ufo's , Knights of the Jaguar and early detroit techno and mid 80's electro material.
Most if not all of it IMHO still holds up very well indeed .
Not much of it sounds very samey or similar though and there was an obvious stylistic difference from artist too artist.
Something that is somewhat lacking these days IMHO.
To many me too I can sound the same type tracks.
So yeah a great dance track is definately somewhat of a fine art for what it's worth.
I was probably lucky enough like many here to be old enough to have started clubbing etc around 85.
And seen ALOT of great stuff pop up on the underground etc...
Though I also absolutely loved going to places like the crappy Fringe Club in Elizabeth Street , Locomotion , Subterain , Check Point Charley , Zuzus , Taboo etc that had a harder indie , industrial , punk and somewhat twisted sense of what dance music was and could be.
Lots of IggyPop / 70's Bowie and other oddball stuff was always getting thrown in the mix for a good laugh.
You kind of get too old for clubs in your late 30's IMHO.
And I listen to tonnes of Jazz , Kraut Rock , Indie , Classical and all sorts of avante guarde and in between stuff these days anyway.
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- KVRAF
- 6242 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from right here, as you can see ...
man, thats my list ... i feel like i was thrown back into times when dancemusic was accepted as art ...
shit, am i that old now?
but seriously, its not a problem to do a dance song.
it gets hard if you want to do a good dance song.
too much bullshit productions in the world are killing the reputation of a whole genre ... so sad ...
does anyone who thinks he is skilled and intelligent
use reverb in a prodoction the way one can actually hear it??? how courageless ...
hard times for the honest ones ...
just my 2 cents though ...
reg,
shit, am i that old now?
but seriously, its not a problem to do a dance song.
it gets hard if you want to do a good dance song.
too much bullshit productions in the world are killing the reputation of a whole genre ... so sad ...
does anyone who thinks he is skilled and intelligent
use reverb in a prodoction the way one can actually hear it??? how courageless ...
hard times for the honest ones ...
just my 2 cents though ...
reg,
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man
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- KVRist
- 207 posts since 25 Apr, 2004
I figure, just write the music in my head. If people dance to it, it's dance. If they don't it doesn't mean it's bad, it's just not dance. There IS A HUGE DANGER in trying to fit the mold, if too many people do it (as it already seems) progress ceases. What was dance a decade ago is not what is dance now. Why not break some new ground or try and be true to yourself and do what you feel, not what you want to be or fit into.
Accept yourself, be yourself... if you happen to be the dance type then you are already true to yoursellf, more power to you. I do find this to be the minority case these days, most everyone is trying to be someone else, so that they can be accepted. I say forget acceptance, be bold and break the rules... maybe the sheep will follow you in a decade. Never know...
I'm sure everyone has heard this a million times, but it's important to not try and conform in music. Music is not about sales, and if it is.. nobody can help ya
Glau
Accept yourself, be yourself... if you happen to be the dance type then you are already true to yoursellf, more power to you. I do find this to be the minority case these days, most everyone is trying to be someone else, so that they can be accepted. I say forget acceptance, be bold and break the rules... maybe the sheep will follow you in a decade. Never know...
I'm sure everyone has heard this a million times, but it's important to not try and conform in music. Music is not about sales, and if it is.. nobody can help ya
Glau
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- KVRAF
- 1981 posts since 26 Oct, 2003 from Toronto
Dance music is 'new fun'. I used to want to be just like New Order or Daft Punk et al... But then I thought I'd go the other way and just be 'lo-fi and experimental'... Then everyone loves my highly danceable beats all of a sudden? 
I think the same can be said for New Order, Daft Punk, Fatboy Slim et al - they weren't out to be GOOD at dance music... They just wanted to do something different at the time.
Genres are for people who like to date themselves!
I think the same can be said for New Order, Daft Punk, Fatboy Slim et al - they weren't out to be GOOD at dance music... They just wanted to do something different at the time.
Genres are for people who like to date themselves!
