yes and no. I would like to know how to do more than I can, but I can't be arsed too. It's only a hobby that already takes too much of my time...nuffink wrote:Anybody else feel a bit like that?
Rant on music theory ignorance.
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- KVRAF
- 7936 posts since 18 Feb, 2003 from out there somewhere
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- KVRer
- 7 posts since 6 Jun, 2005 from Madison, WI
Hi there, new to the board.
I really find it quite amusing that everyone is discussing music theory, something my parents had to FORCE me to study when I was much younger, of their own free will. I now realize that it was a very good thing to make me do, and I appreciate the information I got from taking these lessons(piano lessons anyone?). I personally think I would be a much weaker music producer if I hadn't taken basic and advanced music theory.
The simplest things, which even those of you who don't believe in music theory do every time you sit down to write a song, are still part of basic music theory. Anyone who has ever used or written an arpeggio for a song has used basic music theory. Anyone who matches up keys of two parts of a track is using music theory. Anyone who doesn't, also doesn't make very good tunage.
It is absolutely necessary to learn at least the names of the notes, how chords go together, how progressions work, and even scales for the more dedicated of you out there, in order to make music which is remotely interesting. I have heard some atrocious music come out of people while working for ACIDplanet.com, and it is no doubt in part to lack of basic music theory knowledge.
This doesn't mean you all have to learn the time scales and how to lay out a Concerto, but if you don't know a C from a G, you're gonna have problems down the line. As someone said on this thread a while back, it is almost like learning a new language. I will say, it is one of the easiest and most beneficial things to learn if you find a good teacher. That, and synthesis! But i'm just learning there, no comments yet.
Since none of you really know anything about me as of yet, feel free to check out my tunes:
http://www.in-silico.net/music
-R
I really find it quite amusing that everyone is discussing music theory, something my parents had to FORCE me to study when I was much younger, of their own free will. I now realize that it was a very good thing to make me do, and I appreciate the information I got from taking these lessons(piano lessons anyone?). I personally think I would be a much weaker music producer if I hadn't taken basic and advanced music theory.
The simplest things, which even those of you who don't believe in music theory do every time you sit down to write a song, are still part of basic music theory. Anyone who has ever used or written an arpeggio for a song has used basic music theory. Anyone who matches up keys of two parts of a track is using music theory. Anyone who doesn't, also doesn't make very good tunage.
It is absolutely necessary to learn at least the names of the notes, how chords go together, how progressions work, and even scales for the more dedicated of you out there, in order to make music which is remotely interesting. I have heard some atrocious music come out of people while working for ACIDplanet.com, and it is no doubt in part to lack of basic music theory knowledge.
This doesn't mean you all have to learn the time scales and how to lay out a Concerto, but if you don't know a C from a G, you're gonna have problems down the line. As someone said on this thread a while back, it is almost like learning a new language. I will say, it is one of the easiest and most beneficial things to learn if you find a good teacher. That, and synthesis! But i'm just learning there, no comments yet.
Since none of you really know anything about me as of yet, feel free to check out my tunes:
http://www.in-silico.net/music
-R
Last edited by In Silico on Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Silence is as important as sound. -Richie Hawtin
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- KVRAF
- 1817 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
i know a little of some things and much of others and hardly anything of yet other things. and seem fairly okay with it, considering that i can still expand my knowledge.
not learning music theory doesn't mean that you aren't learning anything, though.
some of the previous posts again - people feel threatened and thus attack each other.
not learning music theory doesn't mean that you aren't learning anything, though.
some of the previous posts again - people feel threatened and thus attack each other.
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- KVRAF
- 1577 posts since 20 May, 2002 from Cambridge, UK
If you're making music, you've probably learned a bit of theory already even if you've never been formally taught - unless you're completely unmusical and just doing it to be bloody-minded. You might not know the technical names for dominant and sub-dominant chords but you probably know when to use them, so those people who say they don't want to know any theory may as well give up music altogether or else be a hypocrite.
Having said that, those people that say "I don't want to know the theory so I can avoid the cliches" are invariably the people that fall into the same predictable traps and are generally not nearly as pioneering and avant-garde as they'd like to think. Just because you know all the theory doesn't mean you have to use it, in fact it can teach you exactly what to avoid in an effort to be truly ground-breaking.
Having said that, those people that say "I don't want to know the theory so I can avoid the cliches" are invariably the people that fall into the same predictable traps and are generally not nearly as pioneering and avant-garde as they'd like to think. Just because you know all the theory doesn't mean you have to use it, in fact it can teach you exactly what to avoid in an effort to be truly ground-breaking.
THIS IS MY MUSIC: https://spti.fi/rZyjX7i 
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
i'm completely in agreement with Mr S_A_P on this one. I like knowing why some things sound good together and what are my reasonable choices when i get stuck, what will provide mild surprise but still transition smoothly.
i like looking at the way some great song writers have put things together and figuring out what they did and why it works, including the 'rules' they followed and the 'rules' they broke or bent.
it also gives me a way to share things like chord progressions with friends across the web i don't get to see or play music with.
i think it's the real deal. keeps me more interested in music than any new soft synth model or set of host features. even if i can't wow anybody with my meagre skills, I can sit down at a piano and put some things together and try to figure out some alternate fingerings on fretboards without consulting a tab book.
i like looking at the way some great song writers have put things together and figuring out what they did and why it works, including the 'rules' they followed and the 'rules' they broke or bent.
it also gives me a way to share things like chord progressions with friends across the web i don't get to see or play music with.
i think it's the real deal. keeps me more interested in music than any new soft synth model or set of host features. even if i can't wow anybody with my meagre skills, I can sit down at a piano and put some things together and try to figure out some alternate fingerings on fretboards without consulting a tab book.
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- KVRist
- 209 posts since 31 Dec, 2004
True, But I feel that while I'm having fun teasing the theory nerds, I can't seem to shake the feeling that some of these theory buffs don't have any talent so they like to preach others about the benefits of something they themselves haven't achived much with in the greater sense...
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- KVRAF
- 6596 posts since 21 Jun, 2004 from Secret Underground Hideout
I'm gonna make you a star!-
- addled muppet weed
- 111326 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
nuffink wrote:It's strange. This thread is full of people who know their theory and seem happy about it. Together with people who know none and are seem happy about it.
Until recently I'd have put myself in the group that knew very little (cos it's hard) but wished I knew more.
Anybody else feel a bit like that?
for anyone in a similar boat id recommend the idiots guide.im not great with theory as ive said already but i found the way things are discussed in the idiots guide to be a more down to earth way of speaking about it,just seems easier to understand than some of the other books available.
but if your happy without theory then great,but dont have a go at people who want to learn,yep and that goes both ways
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- KVRAF
- 6596 posts since 21 Jun, 2004 from Secret Underground Hideout
here's some jazz theory fer those who want it. theory knowledge is all over the web. no need to buy a book
http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-theory.html
http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-theory.html
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Stupid American Pig Stupid American Pig https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4753 - KVRAF
- 7065 posts since 25 Nov, 2002 from not sure
He does know the letter "O" though-flex42 wrote:One of the guys in Yello doesn't know a C from a G. Seems to not be big a problem though...
and the word "chikka chikka"
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- KVRist
- 360 posts since 27 Jul, 2004 from Cologne/Germany
So what's your point? Talentless people who know music theory might perhaps come across with something slightly more similar to music than the achievements of talentless people without that knowledge.netsound wrote:True, But I feel that while I'm having fun teasing the theory nerds, I can't seem to shake the feeling that some of these theory buffs don't have any talent so they like to preach others about the benefits of something they themselves haven't achived much with in the greater sense...
As for talented people: You think that learning music theory makes them lose their talent? Or could you even imagine that learning some basic theory might help them to improve their skills?
Regards,
Tommy