KVR Audio

hao nao · Post by **hao nao** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:35 pm

finally! on a 4-string bass

and the pentatonic scales, too

whee!

wish I had started this way instead of trying to learn guitar chords

3 6 2 5 R

5 R 4 b7 b3

a fifth:
--o
o--

a 3x3 octave:
--o
---
o--

a 4x4 octave:
o---
----
----
---o

Lawnmower Of The Damned · Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:56 pm

Congratulations. Multi-instrumentalism is fun, eh?

Right now I'm a good guitarist, a competent keyboardist and bassist, and a poor drummer. I used to play the block flute when I was younger, and I'm thinking about picking up a set of pan-pipes. Possibly a native american drone flute, too.

There's no better feeling than showing someone a recording of your music when they ask, "Cool. What instrument did you play?" you can answer, "All of them".

Landphil · Post by **Landphil** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:29 pm

That's great!

I find the bass to be loads of fun. It's kind of liberating after decades of playing keyboards. I know guitar, but I'm not very good at it. Can't change chords in a timely manner.

Congrats!

hao nao · Post by **hao nao** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:41 pm

thanks guys, I'm into it -- spent last night adapting for guitar, accounting for the half-step jog on the two high strings

the patterns, the patterns!

also helping me to learn my 4ths and 5ths

and I'm thinking: violas are also tuned in 4ths

ejr · Post by **ejr** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:52 pm

As a newbie guitarist any chance of an explanation of
3625R etc or a pointer to somewhere on the www that will help me learn the frtboard?

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:15 pm

ejr wrote:As a newbie guitarist any chance of an explanation of
3625R etc or a pointer to somewhere on the www that will help me learn the frtboard?

what's to learn about the fretboard? Every fret is a half step...there you learned the fretboard...I think as a noobie you'd be better off understanding the intervals, scales, chords and how they relate to each other...memorizing the fretboard is just that memorizing it...what have you learned...instead of A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A...you should start off by thinking
1*, 2,3,4,5,6,7, ect...

*root

When you learn intervals it applies to every key...as opposed to memorizing every note in a scale

Major scale is (in steps) whole, whole, 1/2, whole, whole, whole,
1/2

in
the key of C that C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C
but in the key of D it woule be D,E,F#,G,A,B,C#,D

A minor scale is whole, 1/2 whole, whole, 1/2, whole, whole

in C that would be

C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb,C
however Am is

A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A

So let's say you want a major scale...starting at the root (no matter what key) you would progres on one string 2 frets,2 frets,1 fret,2 frets,2 frets, 2 frets, 1 fret and that wil bring you back to the root...transposing that to other strings instead of one string will start to show patterns and make it more dynamic instead of memeorizing notes it's all the same, just depends on where you start...

of course ther's a lot more to it then just that..I'm just pointing out that there is nothing to learning the fretboard...save for the fact the it's not linear in front of you like a keyboard, so depending on your choice for scales (and there are a lot more) you need to know the pattern...where the half steps will be, where to switch strings and such...and it's a universal pattern that just requires remembering where to start and what the pattern is...

Remember I am not a teacher, Sascha would be better at explaining then myself.

hao nao · Post by **hao nao** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:22 pm

ejr wrote:As a newbie guitarist any chance of an explanation of
3625R etc or a pointer to somewhere on the www that will help me learn the frtboard?

hey ejr, I'm really just half a step ahead of you

... some of these things are mnemonics I came up with for myself yesterday

presented linearly, but you might have to spread these out and connect the dots

3625R is one for the major pentatonic scale (see below)

or remember it as: 36 62 25 5R

every fret is a semitone

assuming standard bass and guitar tunings:

bass is tuned in fourths, EADG

guitar is tuned in fourths an octave higher, EADGBE, except that the high B and E strings are jogged down a semitone (G to B is a third interval, and B to high E is a fourth again)

somewhere I got the idea that the pentatonic scales are least likely to clash with other chords -- maybe someone could amplify on that?

I got the modes from http://www.basstabs.net/basics/ ... there are probably many similar for guitar, but I don't know any offhand

pentatonic major scale includes Root note + 2356

-- but arranged in fourth intervals, as the bass is tuned: 3625R

so e.g. if you are playing the 5th of the current chord or scale on whatever string, the Root is on the same fret but the next higher-pitched string

and likewise, if you are currently playing the 2nd, on the same fret the 5th is the next string up, and the Root the string after that (which is nice for blues, which usually has a II V I chord structure)

btw, the last note in these mnemonics is the "end of the line" because the note a fourth above it would be out of scale

pentatonic minor includes R b3 4 5 b7

-- but arranged in fourth intervals: 5 R 4 b7 b3

the grid patterns are also mnemonics for me working on bass, but they can easily be adapted for guitar if you remember that notes shift down half a step above the jog-line between G and B E

yesterday I was drawing grids and deriving little dot patterns with root as a white circle and the other pentatonic notes as black circles

[

I should have had white in-scale circles except for a black root circle, which would have meant less time spent filling in

]

for myself, I'm glad I did it with relative intervals instead of specific note names, because it's easier to see the general patterns that way

hope that helps!

Kevin

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:23 pm

BTW for chords all you have to do is understand the elements to the chord..again instead of memorizing the notes of of each chord, if you understand the structure of the notes in a chord, the root is the only note you have to worry about.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:30 pm

guitar is tuned in fourths an octave higher, EADGBE, except that the high B and E strings are jogged down a semitone (G to B is a third interval, and B to high E is a fourth again)

yours is anyhow, but Kevin you just showed a great example of understanding

...but why does the guitar have to EADGBE? Yeah I know all tab is written that way..personally I think Tab is crap...

Do you know how to play Brown Sugar by the stones?...for that matter here who really does? Don't go by the tab unless it tells you to retune, it will be wrong.

tune your guitar to keiths fav...and very popular...Open G DGDGBD...get the stones album out and have fun...

David · Post by **David** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:40 pm

Some links:
http://www.wholenote.com/

A lesson I posted there:
http://www.wholenote.com/default.asp?src=l&l=1343&p=1

http://www.visualguitar.com/

For more like this, google: fretboard

Study this:

hao nao · Post by **hao nao** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:44 pm

Hink wrote:
guitar is tuned in fourths an octave higher, EADGBE, except that the high B and E strings are jogged down a semitone (G to B is a third interval, and B to high E is a fourth again)
yours is anyhow, but Kevin you just showed a great example of understanding ...but why does the guitar have to EADGBE? Yeah I know all tab is written that way..personally I think Tab is crap...

Do you know how to play Brown Sugar by the stones?...for that matter here who really does? Don't go by the tab unless it tells you to retune, it will be wrong.

tune your guitar to keiths fav...and very popular...Open G DGDGBD...get the stones album out and have fun...

thanks, Hink, yeah it was a breakthrough for me

and I have in the past tried drop-tuning because some chords are easier that way

but if I did that again, I would have to redraw all my grids and patterns

and as mentioned above, fiddles and violas (:love:) are tuned in fourths

not too sure I will ever play many chords, but decades ago I picked out "Dust in the Wind" by ear, and yesterday on my bass was alternating between "My Girl" and "Keep on Rockin in the Free World"

SevenString · Post by **SevenString** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:56 pm

There's no better feeling than showing someone a recording of your music when they ask, "Cool. What instrument did you play?" you can answer, "All of them".

I'll drink to that:

http://www.lesliespring.com/seaofstars.mp3

congrats, havran.

ejr · Post by **ejr** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:32 pm

Thanks to everyone for that....alot to digest there so should keep me out of trouble for a bit

KHC · Post by **KHC** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:33 am

I'm a little bit late responding to this, but here's a link to a fretboard generator:

http://www.realisis.ca/calculators/fretboard.html

It is really versitile. There are presets for about 24 scales including western diatonic, pentatonic, minor blues, enigmatic, etc. The root note and the modes of each scale can be changed. Each string can be tuned independently to set up a drop D fretboard, for example.

Cheers,

George

David · Post by **David** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:26 pm

Fantastic! Thanks, George!
dc

learning the fretboard ...