ArtsAcoustic VS Lexicon 960 (or any lexi hardware) :)

[Funkybot]

I agree Devon. I just picked up the Princeton in the group buy (got in early so I've had my license for a while now) and I still have every intention of getting the AAR at some point in the near future. They're both good, and quite different from each other. Frankly, from playing with both, I think they're both essential native reverbs, and everyone should just own the two of them. And you're right about what you said of the Princeton where it's the kind of reverb you don't notice in the mix until it's gone, truer words were never said about it. I think that's a big part of why it's just great at gluing a mix together. AAR can certainly stand out more in a mix, which I think is a big part of the reason people here keep insisting that it's so much better, whereas it's just easier to make it stand out and still sound good. But Devon, if you ever feel like that Eventide has become redundant and just needs to be thrown in the trash, make sure you let me know when you'll be putting it out ahead of time and give me your address .

[greendoor]

I was replying to Greendoor's biased and unfounded assessment that the AAR was capable of imitating the Princeton.

Read again - I never said AAR was capable of imitating the Princeton. FWIW - I think the Princeton sounds better than your average VST reverb, and if it wasn't challenge/response I might have bought it. I have seriously A/B'd this a LOT recently, just in case, but keep coming back to the same conclusion - I don't need it. Can't you hear that sproing .. sproing .. sproing ... thing going on? Doesn't it annoy the crap out of you? For anyone who thinks the AAR is too bright and metallic - here is what I have found: for my aesthetic taste, I prefer to control this with the damping (rather than with the eq). To get a dark sound, similar to the Princeton, you need some serious high end dampening. Try the minimum setting for a starting point. Bearing in mind that natural acoustic spaces the highs disappear quickly and the lows last longer, try bass damping x2, mid damping 1 and high damping minimised. Maybe try some eq as well - you can get really dark, smooth reverb tails if you like. To get closer to the Princeton sound you need to introduce the sproing ... sproing .. sproing .. sound. I find the AAR Echo parameter can give you that sproingy wobble, if that's really what you want ...

[DevonB]

But Devon, if you ever feel like that Eventide has become redundant and just needs to be thrown in the trash, make sure you let me know when you'll be putting it out ahead of time and give me your address .

Ha! Fat chance! Best multi effect processor out there. I wish there was a native replacement for it.

Devon

[martian]

I was replying to Greendoor's biased and unfounded assessment that the AAR was capable of imitating the Princeton.

Read again - I never said AAR was capable of imitating the Princeton. FWIW - I think the Princeton sounds better than your average VST reverb, and if it wasn't challenge/response I might have bought it. I have seriously A/B'd this a LOT recently, just in case, but keep coming back to the same conclusion - I don't need it. Can't you hear that sproing .. sproing .. sproing ... thing going on? Doesn't it annoy the crap out of you?

certainly anoys me and makes it unusable. i like clear warm halls from reverbs, and whenever i turn the send ammount up on a channel to get more reverb tail ambiance, the initial delay jus gets more and more prominent and ruins it, i actually thought the plugin had a delay it was not reporting to the host first time i used it. i assume its intentional and the reverb is more for small rooms?

[greendoor]

I've probably been a bit harsh about the Princeton. I've been spending some more time checking out reverbs, but this time with headphones (Sennheiser HD280's) instead of my monitors. The Princeton, despite it's limitations, has it's uses. I've noticed that sharp slap back echo that I guess is a fixed early reflection. Sometimes a short echo from a delay plugin is a good option to explore anyway. Considering the sproing flutter echo, the price and the challenge/response business, I still won't be buying it, but I would have considered it on other terms.

I like AAR because it's always possible to find something that works. But i've been exploring other options too, because reverb is a bit like drum samples - you can never have too many. I think it's a no-brainer to have all the freeware ones available. Even the really cheesy ones can be surprising good on some sources.

R66 intrigues me, because it's expensive, and most of the presets are really bad. But one or two sound very big and Lexicon-ish. But something as basic as changing the decay time ends up completey trashing the sound! I can sense that there are probably some great sounds possible in there, but the interface just defeats me. That's where AAR is a walk in the park.

[martian]

i'm still thinking about AA, its impressing me more each time i try it. problem is you get so used to one reverb that everything else seems to sound shit until you really let go of the sound you get the from it and accept different as better, when it is.

I've used rverb up to this point, it has the smoothness i like from halls, but also a whining metalic tail in many situations. I still feel AA has a little of this, but much better on the whole.

I actually find SXs roomverb (same as ambiance?) to have very warm and unmetalic hall tails. my only prob with it though is the low freqs are quite wierd, there's odd stuttering going on down there, so id never use it.

I also really like some of the lexi impulses at noisevault, they have the basic warmth and transparency i desire, except they ALL have this really anoying high freq ring at the very end of the tails, most noticable on the halls. I thought it was SIR at first but exact same thing in pristine space. so maybe its the A/Ds they were recorded with? anyone else notice? they anoy me enough to never consider use in a track.

[crimsontider]

Been testing several reverbs the last couple of days and have these thoughts. AAR is just awesome for a soft plug and the slightly metalic(which I like the sound)can be reduced by a simple "hi cut" lowering. I don't really care for Princeton 2016 stereo room but it's like a Strat vs Paul and AAR is the Strat, Princeton is the Paul, I like Stats but some prefer Paul's! I can get similar reverb from my PSP 84 as the 2016 Stereo Room but have nothing that sounds like the AAR. To me, Korg's Legacy Collections MDE-X is second favorite Reverb plug ahead of the Princeton 2016 demo and PSP EasyVerb. Anyone have any comments on Korg's MDE-X? Not a bad reverb at all.

I don't want a reverb that you don't notice until it's off, I want one that paints a picture and AAR does that.

1. AAR(DEMO)
2. MDE-X
3. PSP 84 (DELAY AND VERB)
4. PSP EASYVERB
5. Princeton 2016 Stereo Room(DEMO)

[dr. orange]

[EJo]

(removed)

[living sounds]

with "rverb" you don't mean the waves renaissance reverb, do you?

I'm sure someone with a $20,000 dollar hardware verb will be willing to spend time doing this.... Why not use a verb that you like instead of waiting for some pro to tell you they have ditched the lexi and gone soft.

Is it going to help your music knowing that a $200 plugin isn't as good sonically as something your probably never going to own?

Lets say some peoples 'opinion' is that the plugin is as good as the hardware - so what? What will it achieve other than fueling more pointless arguments about something which can be purely subjective.

Software reverbs are very good at what they acheive, so why not be happy that (A) you can get a pretty darn good verb for free to use in your studio/bedroom/laptop in the park etc, (B) that you can trial most 'pay' verbs in your chosen environment for a length of time to deceide what works for you and (C) that they (plugins) work extremely easyily into our obvious chosen working practices (on computers).

Boards like this one are cool for discussing like for like but I fail to see the point in this one. If you have $20,000 to spend on a verb I doubt you would need to ask on a forum if its worth it.

AA isn't as "good" as Wizoo W2 or rverb (this is what i feel of course, but i'm right). W2 and rverb (and maybe some other) can sorta sound as good as m3000, mpx500 or even pcm90, but they're not quite as flexible.

On the other hand, AA is good enough to use on a major commercial release. The pricey reverbs have a "prettier" sound, but if you're not going to use the reverb more than 18% wet or so, it's not really ever gonna matter. But if you make Jean Michelle Oxygene-type of music, you'll probably find that you need at least an mpx500 or something similar.

Kids today don't WANT a Brothers in arms-hi fi sound. They're used to noise and want more noise. I have plenty of pricey hardware because i like it myself. The audience doesn't care.


/J

[Rangtangtang]

I havn't read the whole thread but as far as hardware is concerned the Lexicon is the one to go for. Iv got quite a few impulses of the Lexicon range - from the earliest to the latest, and out of all the others Iv tried Id rate the lexicon's at the high end. Probably if I come across a bargain Id be very tempted to buy the actual hardware unit. Overall, Im not overtly impressed whith the VST version, though there are a few good ones.