yet another "What's your host?" thread

[John Vulich]

Any statement about grossly overpriced Apple computers seems more a matter of belief than fact.

Sorry dude, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about!

[John Vulich]

http://66.221.205.118/adamjay/Live4CPU_2.jpg

That's just a list of numbers with no justification, testing methodologies, etc. Are there additional docs elsewhere? I would like to see them.

Nonetheless, these sorts of comparisons are inherently flawed for many reasons, not least of which are the differences in the operating systems, app builds, etc. Does the same app doing the same thing on both computers actually take twice as long on the Apple? I would bet it does not.

You'd lose that bet... It was a "real world" test that was done at the Ableton Live forum using a cross-platform file that forum members loaded up. They later reported back their CPU hit using the built-in meter in Live. The only misleading thing about the Macs is that I don't think Live is optimized for dual processors. If it was then the dual G5 might actually catch up to my Centrino laptop. A single G5 would still be slaughtered by my laptop which is very sad for a desktop machine. As far as I'm concerned this is far more relevent then the rigged benchmark tests that CPU manufacturers always seem to be flaunting.

You also must not have read about the false advertisement accusations that forced Apple to remove their "World Fastest Persoanl Computer" ad campaign.

Apple will probably never get a G5 laptop built now that they are switching to Intell chips. The fact that they are switching chips speaks volumes about their CPUs.

[escalation746]

Raw processing speed has not been the bottleneck in (most) applications for a long time.

hoewever it clearly is the bottleneck for music-production! (and it will always be as plugin algorithms become better and better but also take more and more resources) - What do you think is freezing for?

Maybe freezing is for...

People who use too many plugins?

People with bad audio I/O cards that suck processing power?

People who would like to run multiple soft-synths plus sequencers simultaneously?

The answer to the first is to learn how to mix better, get professional plugins that have lower CPU needs, or just use the built-in Samplitude FX (not an option for Apple users).

The answer to the second is to run an RME I/O from the PCMCIA slot.

There is no answer to the third: if this is how you make music then you will need a very fast computer or, more likely, more than one. Pros often reserve a box just for Gigapiano or what-have-you. They don't try to get one computer to do everything.

If you want the ultimate in processing power get a desktop with dual pocessors. No-one who is pushing the boundaries like this should be working on a laptop (which is all I'm talking about here). But a laptop is perfectly decent for recording eight channels at a time or playback of even more... with no problems whatsoever so long as you are using good hardware and software.

As I have already said, my two-year old desktop computer is good enough for my needs (which can be quite extensive) so an Apple laptop with a processor two years behind would perhaps be good enough too, no?

I still think that in most cases there are far more important real-world issues for most people than processor speed. That said, I haven't actually used a Powerbook for music production (to repeat myself: they don't run Samplitude) but others do with no big issues.

[jens]

you're such an arrogant fool...

[sleepingsword]

haha these type of threads always start a war.....

I use SX3 and its better than class a drugs or sommink....

[escalation746]

haha these type of threads always start a war.....

It's true! I guess by now I should know better than to use reason, facts, and argument when I could simply insult someone!

If that makes me arrogant, well, so be it.

Have fun making music with whatever you use.

[Meffy]

I should know better than to use reason

How DARE you?! Reason is great, I use it all the time and love it. >:-O





;-)

(But I really do love Reason, and it really is great stuff.)

[AD80]

Just as an example, look at where the 1.8ghz P-M is on this list, now look at where the so called "Powerbook" is. Paying the same price for half the performance is not a "dead heat". No matter how stylish the thing is.

http://66.221.205.118/adamjay/Live4CPU_2.jpg

That's just a list of numbers with no justification, testing methodologies, etc. Are there additional docs elsewhere? I would like to see them.

Nonetheless, these sorts of comparisons are inherently flawed for many reasons, not least of which are the differences in the operating systems, app builds, etc. Does the same app doing the same thing on both computers actually take twice as long on the Apple? I would bet it does not.

Raw processing speed has not been the bottleneck in (most) applications for a long time. For audio with RME cards there is zero extra processor load, since it's being done onboard. So what becomes a far better measure of performance is the latency one can achieve. Even then, that doesn't matter much for people doing hardware monitoring.

Look at it another way: My computer is two years old but it's still fast enough for everything I do. Speed is not the issue. But if some old task is made easier or some little efficiency bottleneck is removed my experience of using the computer is so much nicer! A practical example: Firefox, which rocks compared to IE.

I'd rather have good design than a small increase in actual application speed. (If it is actually a real-world doubling like the chart implies then that's a different matter.)

Nonetheless I would never buy an Apple because it won't run Samplitude.

I understand what you're saying about different types of bottlenecks depending on your way of working etc. But as far as the machines themselves, just the machines, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL a G4 powerbook is even close to a Centrino. In power, price, or software availability. Its no contest at all.

[hello1234]

since they have good laptops at decent prices.

Did they release some new models or something? All I see is outdated processors at ridiculus prices.

I don't understand that one either. Are you refering to imacs and ibooks?

[hello1234]

I'm sorry to say that I also had a little test of same aps on both platforms and the pc won.

BIG flame thread over that one........this thread doesn't compare (yet?)

Ok.......that being said.......isn't this a "whats your host" thread?

[braj]

If I'm using a laptop for non-audio stuff, I'd much rather have a Powerbook even if they are slower. The 'value' comes in security and the nice suite of integrated applications and 'ergonomic' design of the OS. I much prefer OS X over XP.

But for audio apps, it's hard to argue a Mac is a better value. Unless you're running Logic. My apps (Live, Tracktion, Reason) run the same on both platforms from a user perspective so I don't see any benefit in running them in OS X, especially when performance isn't as good. My next laptop will likely be an Intel PC, unless the early Intel Macs are awesome.