This is to all the song writers out there.
I'm a new composer and a pianist myself. I have a question on the keys you guys use to compose. I'm wondering why some of the composers compose on Db key rather than in C since it's much easier to write and use the chords in the C scale. There isn't much difference in the tone between these two keys. Another example would be F and F#. Why F#?
Composing in Db key?
-
- KVRist
- 78 posts since 9 Nov, 2004
-
- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
it depends on the music, someone could write a song that suits their's or their singers range, other times it's for feel...like Dm is known to be an emotional key, minors sound darker...myself sometimes I'll use a key I dont use often for inspiration and/or to avoid tedium...saikhuan wrote:This is to all the song writers out there.
I'm a new composer and a pianist myself. I have a question on the keys you guys use to compose. I'm wondering why some of the composers compose on Db key rather than in C since it's much easier to write and use the chords in the C scale. There isn't much difference in the tone between these two keys. Another example would be F and F#. Why F#?
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
-
- KVRist
- 58 posts since 3 Apr, 2004
The first arguement (which never convinces me) is something inherent in the pitch of a key and how a song sounds.
But from my personal experience these "hard" keys usually come about for me by
a)Trying to get a vocal into a sweet spot or in range for a singer, some can sing the higher/lower note but like the sound of their voice maybe for a particular song in a key
b) wind players - Bb trumpet & Eb & B Sax. Typically flat keys can be easier to play - although F & C are not bad ones for Eb sax.
Just try asking your next Alto sax player to play something a A - for them it's F# ...
But from my personal experience these "hard" keys usually come about for me by
a)Trying to get a vocal into a sweet spot or in range for a singer, some can sing the higher/lower note but like the sound of their voice maybe for a particular song in a key
b) wind players - Bb trumpet & Eb & B Sax. Typically flat keys can be easier to play - although F & C are not bad ones for Eb sax.
Just try asking your next Alto sax player to play something a A - for them it's F# ...
-
- KVRist
- 88 posts since 11 May, 2001 from australia
This is an interesting point, however I think the assumption that F is easier than F# is based on the assumption that you are playing piano and reading a score. For example with a guitar F# is as easy to play as F except if you are sight reading the score. With sequnecers, it is no effort to play in any key you choose, or write in one key then move to another.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 78 posts since 9 Nov, 2004
Yea, maybe it's easier to play the guitar on F# key but for a composer on a piano, i dont think it sounds any different, for the 2 keys (F and F#).
-
- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
Broken record time...it depends how you tune your guitar...saikhuan wrote:Yea, maybe it's easier to play the guitar on F# key but for a composer on a piano, i dont think it sounds any different, for the 2 keys (F and F#).
as for piano, for a guitarist/keyboard player I find playing F# easier then F (using more black keys and all)....The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
-
- KVRist
- 127 posts since 11 Jul, 2004 from Hong Kong
I play guitar and when I'm messing around I always start in A (as I find it to be the most comfortable position on the neck). As a result, music in A sounds dull to me. I find the move to B flat to be quite a large one.
Doesn't happen with other keys though. I listen to a lot of jazz (very often in B flat and F) but I don't really notice it. I guess A is ingrained.
Doesn't happen with other keys though. I listen to a lot of jazz (very often in B flat and F) but I don't really notice it. I guess A is ingrained.
This space intentionally left blank
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 78 posts since 9 Nov, 2004
I guess each of us have our own "favourite" key to play with. As Hink was saying, it's easier to for certain performers to perform on a scale with more black keys.
but i find it very hard to write with a lot of black keys in my composition.
but i find it very hard to write with a lot of black keys in my composition.
-
- KVRian
- 1099 posts since 20 Nov, 2004 from Seinäjoki, Finland
I try to compose in as many keys as possible. If something feels difficult to play, there's always the little black key that says "Transpose" on it
The reason why I feel a large variety in keys is important is that when I'm picking up songs for a new album I am much more free to put the songs in the order I want. As you know, it wil get boring really fast if there are many songs in the same key after each other.
The reason why I feel a large variety in keys is important is that when I'm picking up songs for a new album I am much more free to put the songs in the order I want. As you know, it wil get boring really fast if there are many songs in the same key after each other.
-
- KVRAF
- 1955 posts since 5 Sep, 2003 from Denmark
-
- KVRist
- 188 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from SW England
I was under the impression that equal-tempered tuning gives equal intervals across the keyboard. So a shift from Db to C is not such a big deal, in theory.
A long time ago, however, alternative tunings were more common. In these the intervals are not equal across the keyboard, meaning that a key-shift would do more than just changing the overall pitch. Different keys were even named because of the different sounds, eg. 'the romantic key'.
I reserve the right to be completely wrong, of course. Hopefully there will be a tuning geek around to correct me...
A long time ago, however, alternative tunings were more common. In these the intervals are not equal across the keyboard, meaning that a key-shift would do more than just changing the overall pitch. Different keys were even named because of the different sounds, eg. 'the romantic key'.
I reserve the right to be completely wrong, of course. Hopefully there will be a tuning geek around to correct me...
-
- KVRist
- 133 posts since 3 May, 2003 from Ohio, USA
[quote]C and Db sounds different on a piano (or any fixed tuning instrument for that matter). It's a result of the equal temperement.[/quote]
Isn't that contradictory? Equal temperament means that the intervals are always the same. For example, a third is always a third, no matter what the key or the two notes. So the only difference between playing in C and Db is the overall pitch.
If you recorded a song in C on a synth (in ET), you could then raise the tuning 100 cents. Would the song then "sound like" it was in Db? Yes, because it would be.
Mitch I.
Isn't that contradictory? Equal temperament means that the intervals are always the same. For example, a third is always a third, no matter what the key or the two notes. So the only difference between playing in C and Db is the overall pitch.
If you recorded a song in C on a synth (in ET), you could then raise the tuning 100 cents. Would the song then "sound like" it was in Db? Yes, because it would be.
Mitch I.
-
- KVRAF
- 8389 posts since 11 Apr, 2003 from back on the hillside again - but now with a garden!
I would avoid Db myself - far too problematic. Too many flats makes for sad music. C# on the other hand - excellent. More sharps: happier music. Even a couple of double sharps in there. Try out BDouble# - you get some triple sharps in there too: you'll just swell with joy.Nigel Tuffnall wrote:Saddest of all keys. I can make people weep instantly in Dm..
This is a cross between Mozart and Bach.. sort of Mach..
yeah, this one's called 'Lick My Lovepump'
:)
DSP
