Composing in Db key?

[nuffink]

I can say this... in the key of C having a chord built on C# would be uncommon.

Sure. It was possibly a bad example. But the same question apllies to the subst V/V (Ab7).
Unless it's just following the convention set by avoiding a chord named after the sharpened tonic.

[Rock]

Like I said function is it and I don't know the function. but in jazz if you had a Db, F, Ab, Cb in the key of C, I would agree with duncanparsons it would probably serve as a V chord. It would be like a G with a flat 5 and a flat 9 (very common jazz alterations) without the G actually being played.

[duncanparsons]

I can say it too

in the key of C having a chord built on C# would be uncommon.

However, alterations and colour like that do happen. Sometimes for variation I will do just that. I might have a groove on C going, then go to C# for a couple of bars, then back to C. Arguably this is a brief unprepared modulation, but I have done it in progressions as well.. C->F->Am->A->C#->Em->Dm->G->C. But yes, it isn't the most done thing ever..

DSP

[Rock]

At this point I am a little confused about what key we are in (in our overall discussion). Nuffik, I'm really sorry can you start from scratch and give me the key, the chord and the question... Thanks

[Hink]

Cause you're flatting (deminishing) the D as opposed sharping (augmenting) the C to fit the piece...

I am?

Yes...chords are derived from their relative scales... However Chord wizard calls it C#, and they also say there are no rules here...however say you're playing in Bb, and you're using the minor...a minor scale technically T,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7,T...in this case you flat the third which is D...so it's Db. It also depends on the key signature..I explained this to you before, that is why sometimes there a double flats or sharps...but I aint always good at putting things in words...sorry this took so long, it wouldn't let me copy and paste so here's a picture of the discription (I could copy it, bu c'mon I'd make too many typos..)

[nuffink]

...

Thanks Hink. I don't remember you explaining it to me before (I don't even remember asking), and I'm not sure you have now.
But that's probably just me being thick. I'll read it again.

[Hink]

...

Thanks Hink. I don't remember you explaining it to me before (I don't even remember asking), and I'm not sure you have now.
But that's probably just me being thick. I'll read it again.

I forget the thread now myself....anyhow the chordwizard site appears to be down now...this was an excerpt from my version which is more advanced and focusess on stringed instruments...but gold 3.0 is about twenty bux, more in depth on theory and uses midi for examples....think about it...where are you going to get a book with all that?...20 bux worth spending...just google chordwizard...I also have the gold 3.0 version but haven't re-installed it...perhap I will when the site is back up...

[herodotus]

I can say this... in the key of C having a chord built on C# would be uncommon.

But if you build one on D flat (the enharmonic equivalent of c#) it would be (in 1st inversion that is) a neapolitan sixth chord.

And the reason that some enharmonic spellings are preferred over others is based on the fact that at one time, before about 200 years ago, there WAS a difference between d flat and c sharp.

[Hink]

I can say this... in the key of C having a chord built on C# would be uncommon.

But if you build one on D flat (the enharmonic equivalent of c#) it would be (in 1st inversion that is) a neapolitan sixth chord.

And the reason that some enharmonic spellings are preferred over others is based on the fact that at one time, before about 200 years ago, there WAS a difference between d flat and c sharp.

there was a 1/4 step piano years ago...

[Rock]

I had one a couple of years ago with quarter steps... till I tuned it.

[nuffink]

...

Thanks Hink. I don't remember you explaining it to me before (I don't even remember asking), and I'm not sure you have now.
But that's probably just me being thick. I'll read it again.

I forget the thread now myself....anyhow the chordwizard site appears to be down now...this was an excerpt from my version which is more advanced and focusess on stringed instruments...but gold 3.0 is about twenty bux, more in depth on theory and uses midi for examples....think about it...where are you going to get a book with all that?...20 bux worth spending...just google chordwizard...I also have the gold 3.0 version but haven't re-installed it...perhap I will when the site is back up...

I do remember you recommending chord wizard. I just dont see how it helps. I understand the theory it's just the spelling which occaisionally perplexes me.

[Hink]

it's still handy, a quick reference and even if you don't need it perhaps someone else

as for spelling of chords I'm still trying to figure out why we spell some words the way we do..

edit..oops...first that kinda souned like I was being an ass...didn't mean too... second I forgot to post the link
20 bux http://www.chordwizard.com/theory.asp
around 70 for guitarts and other stringed instruments http://www.chordwizard.com/products.asp

[duncanparsons]

And the reason that some enharmonic spellings are preferred over others is based on the fact that at one time, before about 200 years ago, there WAS a difference between d flat and c sharp.

..actually, there still is a difference between Db and C#, and a good violinist can play it. Likewise, F## ISN'T another name for G, even tho' our equal tempered pianos like to think so. With a little vibrato, a guitarist can modulate between C# and Db, but whether or not they're intending to is another matter.

All good fun!

DSP

[Hink]

And the reason that some enharmonic spellings are preferred over others is based on the fact that at one time, before about 200 years ago, there WAS a difference between d flat and c sharp.

..actually, there still is a difference between Db and C#, and a good violinist can play it. Likewise, F## ISN'T another name for G, even tho' our equal tempered pianos like to think so. With a little vibrato, a guitarist can modulate between C# and Db, but whether or not they're intending to is another matter.

All good fun!

DSP

if you write G## every trained site reader will play an A... I know there must be a notation for a 1/4 step, but I know that isn't it... slur?

[kaze]

BTW here is a good place to start if alternative tunings interest you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well-Tempered_Clavier