KVR Audio

moonlite · Post by **moonlite** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:16 pm

not being an old muzys user ( i just tried it a couple of times ) i must admit that muzys is still the most transparent host to me. the only thing that kept me from using it was the absence of step recording.

muzys was the most fun to use host and i really hope that jo is able to make the possible new host at least just as fun.

every time i touched muzys i created something that even sounded good. really good.

as much as i know of muzys, i'd be more than happy with muzys + step record + pdc. oh, and waves support would have been nice, too, but in ext i've resolved this problem by using the dx versions and a wrapper ...

aiui people have had serious stability problems with muzys, too, so that should be fixed also ..

anyway, imho muzys should be where tracktion is; supported by a large company (and the development continued). even instead of tracktion ('cause i just don't get tracktion)

so jo, make a new, even better host. the market has space - actually NEED - for really intuitive, fast to use, transparent hosts. i know it's a matter of taste, and some people seem to think that tracktion or energyxt have filled that gap, but to me, muzys was even better. extend the idea and blow the market away (at least a big part of it).

moonlite · Post by **moonlite** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:30 pm

oh, i must add that i really /have/ tried most of the hosts out there, and with /none/ of them have i made so good sound so fast as with muzys. not even with years of practice (logic).

i took almost a year to seek out a new host after logic became apple-only, and now settled with energyxt. but it has its weaknesses.

anyway, please, jo, a new host, please =)

moonlite · Post by **moonlite** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:31 pm

oh one more thing. user-definable keyboard shortcuts could be nice, too.

snooty30 · Post by **snooty30** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:33 pm

Put me down on the "Bring back Muzys" (even if it's a different format) petition!! So after reading all these comments what's your thought so far Jo?

tkay77 · Post by **tkay77** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:53 pm

..the tool i miss is a simple to use, one-screen "virtual groovebox" similar to Cakewalk P606 with support for actual controllers...it could look like a big virtual mc-909 with support for vst plugins, several sampleformat (multisamples) and audiotracks..it´s main focus should be:

simple & straight pattern sequencencing with realtime and steprecording, 8 to 16 parts
easy layering and mixing of vst-plugins and samples
running standalone(live) and as a vsti

torkay

Adam_V · Post by **Adam_V** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:17 am

moonlite wrote:people have had serious stability problems with muzys, too, so that should be fixed also ..

I have to disagree with that. Jo's releases were always ridiculously stable. I don't think I ever heard of anyone having anything more than the very occassional crash.

moonlite wrote:oh one more thing. user-definable keyboard shortcuts could be nice, too.

Those were available in Muzys. I'm sure they'll be in whatever comes out next.

sluggo wrote:Collaboration is the way to go. Look at what Fxpansion just did with Devine Machine (GURU).

I think there are a lot of developers that are saturating their market (but still doing cutting-edge development). Joining with them can accomplish new ideas and concepts, along with sharing the load of programming. Different developers bring different assets, the whole can be bigger than the sum of the parts.

I totally agree. Jo, I would highly recommend getting in touch with Jorgen (eXT developer) as I have a feeling that you both have very similar target markets and could complement each other's skills greatly. I'm not sure if he's interested in such a thing, but I think it's definitely worth a PM.

With all that said, I would really love to see a product similar to Muzys, but only more fully-featured and flexible in it's audio handling and mixer.

At any rate, I'm glad that you're back Jo. All the best.

moonlite · Post by **moonlite** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:41 am

well, could be that the guys just had something wrong with their system then, but i dunno .. i think they know what they're doing ..

but cool about the shortcuts ..

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:57 am

blurk wrote:
kovacs wrote:I am not aware of good alternatives to Energy XT for OSX.
Plogue Bidule? Not exactly the same but

not at all the same!!!

I'm a huge eXT fan (recorded lots of songs with it) but I wouldn't have any use for Bidule. (because I couldn't record songs with it)

Modular? Dunno about modular - to hell with modular - I need a good sequencer which supports/enhances my creativity instead of blocking it - I'm not into just fiddling with sounds and stuff for the fun of it - I'm only doing this for applying the sounds to an actual end product I can put in a cd-player. How many song have been posted in the cafe that were made with Bidule?

(of course I know that this is a conservative and arrogant viewpoint and I'm am sure you can do fantastic things with Bidule if you have the needed open-mindedness and vision (usually I'm lacking both - I'm just a simple boring composer/arranger). But they are beyond me - and that is my point: comparing eXT and Bidule is comparing Apples and Oranges - everything in eXT is about flexible productivity and Bidule rather seems to be about flexible experimentation)

DaveL60 · Post by **DaveL60** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:25 pm

There's been a lot of good discussion here, but I haven't seen too much that touches on some of the ideas that were presented in this thread on the Sony ACID forum. I like a lot of the thoughts there, and am not aware of any products that provide the features the original poster there describes.

DaveL

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:57 pm

Loved the keyboard shortcuts in muzys. highlight a part and by pressing keys I could quickly flip between list, piano, arrange, graphic editors.

Personally I wouldn't recommend going super deep into sequencer functionality. Most of the gains in new hosts are accomplished by simplifing the user's experience along with some innovative ideas. Look at Project5, it's very user friendly and really good at compositional creativity (imo), and it doesn't have that many features. It has most of the ones a guy needs though. Muzys already had a very extensive feature list.

For collaboration, I like some of the following ideas:
1. click on the Master icon to bring up the full screen mastering suite
2. insert drumtrak to bring up a drum kit with integrated midi/groove sequencing
3. insert muzynth with integrated sample management/conversion plugin to handle kontakt, giga, akai, sfz, sf2, etc samples
4. insert analog synth with integrated mono and polysynth along with x0x sequencer and gate
5. integrated sample explorer and loop library with 3gb of samples from established companies (ie sample companies are more likely to release "sample players" now instead of samples: why not release a "sample host"?)
6. don't have time to create new effects? pair up with any of the existing players
7. poor distribution capabilities? team up with developers that already have established networks. there are several likely candidates for the ideas above, many of which have distribution networks.

s

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:54 pm

Mmm...

Jo - what do you think you do well as a software developer? What do you want to invest your time in? I think those could be two key criteria here, too!

Anyway, ignoring them for a moment

... here's another random idea...

Treat any input signal as a trigger source, not just MIDI. Obviously computer keyboard, mouse, other attached devices. But also "audio" ins. I've no idea how much CPU power that would chew through... I'm thinking that you could set up rules like "when a sample of (this nature) arrives, trigger this (triggerable thing)".

(And triggers, as I previous mentioned, should be able to trigger anything. I did say that, didn't I?)

Sort of back to my questions above...

Find a cross-platform GUI library that means you don't have to waste time writing your own -- or debugging theirs.

Ditto for IO.

Make sure you keep an eye on Linux, too. I think the Mac, with the current OSX releases, is holding it at bay still but it's got the potential to become as sizable a market as the Mac. JACK's been ported to OSX, I believe, so supporting that would be a start.

And I guess what Sluggo and Adam_V said sort of impinge on this too - is there someone you'd trust to work with on a new project?

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:47 pm

HI

Looking at the screenshot of Logic audio's automation that 'shamann' put up confirms for me as an ex Logic PC user just how vital decent automation is - having your automation 'layered' over the track that you want to automate is probably one of the most obvious yet underused features a user could want - a few app's that do have it fall down in other areas, quite miserablely IMO.

As most people have gone software based and no longer use analogue mixing, track and song automation become paramount - this feature would be a show stopper (if executed well) along with decent midi/audio handling (IMO Project 5 V2 is pretty good with it's midi side of things).

Flipper.

moonlite · Post by **moonlite** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:53 pm

the layered automation in logic was a pita imho, but then again, i think i never really learned how to use it ..

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:14 pm

HI

If you never learn't how to use it how can you call it a PITA?

My first fully finished productions were using Logic's automation - the alternative is to have half a dozen automation clips/lanes stacked under the track your automating - what a mess that becomes.

Anyway I liked it!

Flipper.

warp x · Post by **warp x** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:21 pm

I was never a Muzys user, (DP and PTLE here) but I think if you're going to build a sequencer-app, maybe combine aspects of MOTU's Freestyle and Celemony's Melodyne.
Also, I remember an app from the BeOS days called Qua, which had some very
intersting features.

post-Muzys: Jo's three questions