Black innovation?

[soulkraka]

It seems that almost every decade of the 20th century featured a new musical form of expression, largely invented by black people in the US. Blues, Jazz, RnB, Rock, Funk, Hip-Hop, House, Techno.

House and Techno came out in the early and mid 80's. Whats been happening since then? TBH, Im not familiar enough with drum n bass to say, but, some of the early "big names" of that genre were blacks. Goldie, LTJ etc but I also remember a lot of whites involved in that scene as well.

My point is that there seems to be a bit of a lull. Where is that fresh shit that is so crazy sounding that it will take years for it to become mainstream?
Where is the new music that will strike a chord with so many people that it will become a movement, a'la hip-hop or house?

Pardon the expression but is there an "innocence lost" kind of thing happening here? (and I mean with musicians in general) After all, the business side/commercialization of music seems to be far more dominant than it ever was. This is bound to take its toll on creativity and innovation.

I would love to hear the opinions of TVD, stale bread, munchkin etc on this.

[Bunnyboy]

GRIME!!

well, if you like the sound of hardcore rapping over a warp records/industrial/gabba beat.

TBH, your question raises more points about explitation of people and the fact that musicians (to a certain extent, hopefully) are colour blind, when it comes to big names, pioneers and collaborations.

So, are you asking if "black" people have invented any new music recently, or if there are any new forms of music at all???

[cron]

Curnk.

Seriously though, there's a black sound called Grime which is picking up a serious head of steam in the UK. I've no idea if it's crossed the pond yet. I think most of it sounds pretty damn hot!

I've since learned this makes me a poser dickhead, unfortunately.

[cron]

Holy shit Bunnyboy!

Stop it!

[intel]

rich fat white men have homogenized black culture to the point where its becoming increasingly more difficult for completely new and original musical styles to flourish and grow.

[Bunnyboy]

Holy shit Bunnyboy!

Stop it!

you aint seen nothing yet

[soulkraka]

TBH, your question raises more points about explitation of people and the fact that musicians (to a certain extent, hopefully) are colour blind, when it comes to big names, pioneers and collaborations.

ideally, we musicians may in fact be somewhat color blind. But, the public is not, IMO. From Glenn Miller to Elvis to The Beastie Boys to Eminem music seems to (arguably) sell a bit more when you have a white face on the cover.

I think my question (and opinion)are pretty clear. I am of the opinion that most popular music of the 20th century was , for the most part, invented by african americans. I am asking if anyone seems to think its taking a while for the new form to emerge.

I realize that we may be in the middle of "the curve" now. It did take james brown a while to go from RnB to straight up funk

[pHz]

music just is ...

... everything else is just marketing ...

(grime is IMHO cynical crap BTW ... see statement immediately above this)

... does it (to raise an age old debate) need to be new ???

slainte rob

[Bunnyboy]

TBH, your question raises more points about explitation of people and the fact that musicians (to a certain extent, hopefully) are colour blind, when it comes to big names, pioneers and collaborations.

ideally, we musicians may in fact be somewhat color blind. But, the public is not, IMO. From Glenn Miller to Elvis to The Beastie Boys to Eminem music seems to (arguably) sell a bit more when you have a white face on the cover.

I think my question (and opinion)are pretty clear. I am of the opinion that most popular music of the 20th century was , for the most part, invented by african americans. I am asking if anyone seems to think its taking a while for the new form to emerge.

I realize that we may be in the middle of "the curve" now. It did take james brown a while to go from RnB to straight up funk

Totally true.

Have you seen "8 Mile"?? They call Eminmen 'Elvis' in that as an insult

Depends really - we have had house techno, garage, hiphop, Drum N Bass, Hardcore, UK Garage, Grime in the last 20 years.
And also trance, and all the other genres from ishukur's guide.

What is interesting, is that all the genres that You and I have mentioned rely quite a lot on technology.
Maybe an advance in music tech is needed before a new style of music is created??

I dont think that music has hit a rut - they are probably more genres at the moment that ever before that are popular. But maybe that is the problem - maybe more of a mix of genres is more innovative than a totally new genre

[seamonkey]

I'm sorry but I'm missing what this whole black/white topic is about?

Why does race have anything to do with it?

[soulkraka]

I'm sorry but I'm missing what this whole black/white topic is about?

Why does race have anything to do with it?

ok well as an exercise do this: list all the MAJOR musical forms that weve listened to for the last 100 years. Dont include any of the "micro genres" that seem to pop up everyday because some producer used a sawtooth wave instead of a square. How many of these genres are black innovations? how many are white? That said, I readily admit that I like black music (so I am biased) and dont always like the results when the style mutates and starts getting produced by whites (ie TARNCE, limp bisquik etc).



If I had wanted to I could have just asked "whats the new style?" But then people would just name the latest micro genre. Instead I wanted to ask for your opinion on commercialization vs innovation...and real innovation in the music world is usually at the hands of blacks IMHO.

[butter]

Yeah. Who the hell cares what color somebody is? Artistic expression is personal. A lot of black and white people have similar experiences. By that rationale should a white person be barred from innovating music too?

A race debate is freakin' stupid. Anyone that thinks that color should dictate a pattern of whatever form needs to grow up a little bit and look at the world for how it really is. Not for this idealistic notion that black people are the only ones that can work a beat.

Stupid...

[cron]

(grime is IMHO cynical crap BTW ...

Have you listened to it?

Criticising a style of music because the marketing applied to it is no different to enjoying it because of said marketing, IMO. Both boil down to the same thing.

I had no idea when I first heard I Luv You by Dizzee Rascal that I was listening to a genre which was being hyped, since I tend to avoid that sort of media. If I enjoy a certain type of music, I'm quite happy to be branded a poser by the reverse-poser clique.

[Stairsteps]

Black has everything to do with it seamonkey, thats why youre missing the point. Black people are the sole innovators of a BEAT, its almost in there heritage.
While there are some extremley talented white folks in the music bus :Beastie & Eminem: excluded
it pales in comparasion to what black folks have concieved over the last fifty plus years.
Without them I dont think any white folks would have learned to dance past square dancing. Talk about 2 left feet lol.
Now with people like eminem, justin timberlake,beastie boys cristeen aguilria, kid rock ect... cant even claim the right to be innovators when all they have done is copy what black people have been doing naturally for years however most black ppl dont get paid for it and soon as you get 1 white person that can clap his hands in sync hes a frigging star.

[soulkraka]

Yeah. Who the hell cares what color somebody is?

Joe Q Public does..................
...................................
.......Elvis.......................
.............glenn miller..........
....eminem.........................
..............the beastie boys.....
......etc..........etc.............etc