Black innovation?

[Left Headphone]

Did fat albert really say that? And wasnt he half Samoan?

Maybe... I thougt he was French Creole.

Nah, he just ate a French Creole...

I mean a Croissant!

[soulkraka]

It was originally labelled "Race Music" in america by white record labels.

because it made you drive fast and smoke lots of reefer?

[tee boy]

Edison owns my lightbulbs.

I don't see anybody here claiming ownership of anything. How is acknowledging the influence/invention of a group of people claiming ownership?

Also, I suspect it wasn't black people who coined the phrase "black music".

edited for content, grammar, and gangsta shit

But that is my point exactly. I dont critise black or white people for labelling music, I just dont like the fact that it is labelled as such.

I respect the artists who make amazing music regardless of their race. It wasnt 'black people' who innovated jazz and blues music, its was a group of talented artists who just happened to be predominately black.

And you say you dont see harm in these race labels? Clearly you've never been called a 'thief' for jamming blues before. Or never been called a 'wigger' for trying to rap. These labels give idiots a cause to spread their hatred.

Sorry, but this is a fact not some ill informed opinion. Labelling music 'black' or 'white' is not constructive in the slightest. Neither does it benefit the artists who pioneered the music.

[Lady J]

That's why its all URBAN music seen?

[soulkraka]

It wasnt 'black people' who innovated jazz and blues music, its was a group of talented artists who just happened to be predominately black.

...and the people that made money off their "innovations" just happen to be predominately white.

dont get me wrong tee boy, I agree with some of the things your saying but I, for one, have just come across way too many people that refuse to give credit where credit is due.

[tee boy]

Ah, Urban music, the politically correct way to say black music.

Well I guess its a step in the right direction.

[tee boy]

It wasnt 'black people' who innovated jazz and blues music, its was a group of talented artists who just happened to be predominately black.

Im sorry, is something wrong with that statement?

[Left Headphone]

Edison owns my lightbulbs.

I don't see anybody here claiming ownership of anything. How is acknowledging the influence/invention of a group of people claiming ownership?

Also, I suspect it wasn't black people who coined the phrase "black music".

edited for content, grammar, and gangsta shit

But that is my point exactly. I dont critise black or white people for labelling music, I just dont like the fact that it is labelled as such.

I respect the artists who make amazing music regardless of their race. It wasnt 'black people' who innovated jazz and blues music, its was a group of talented artists who just happened to be predominately black.

And you say you dont see harm in these race labels? Clearly you've never been called a 'thief' for jamming blues before. Or never been called a 'wigger' for trying to rap. These labels give idiots a cause to spread their hatred.

Sorry, but this is a fact not some ill informed opinion. Labelling music 'black' or 'white' is not constructive in the slightest. Neither does it benefit the artists who pioneered the music.

I get you. I live in the South(US). And down here, is were a majority of this labeling stuff started. We should give credit to the individual. I know I didn't help Jimi Hendrix write Purple Haze. So, I can't take any credit for that. Hell, I wasn't even born yet.

[luCiPHer]

It comes off as if "you" think all black music is not intelligent. When I do a song, I don't just throw a bunch of sounds together and say I'm done. Your comments are very biased and unsupported.

well, intelligent may have been a bad choice for a word, forgive me, i'm not a native english speaker.

i am not against black music at all, and i guess at least the thread-starter got it

i was talking about the approach of making music, and listening to music as well.
i have friends that do listen to hip hop, but say things like "well, not because i like it, but one is SUPPOSED to listen to hip hop these days, it's on mtv man."

is that intelligent?
as i said, bad choice for a word.

but it's definately not "just do it"


of course there are positive aspects as well.
i lived through that typical "it's on mtv, i CAN'T listen to mtv crap, no matter if i like it, it's crap, cause it's on mtv" teenage-drama, and i DID find a world of music that is way beyond mtv.
since then i have "learned" to listen to popular music again if i happen to like it, but checking out unpopular stuff just because it's unpopular definately helped to form my current musical taste, which is a mix of "just do it" and "well, i guess this could grow on me", and sometimes music DOES grow on you, wel all know that, it's not always about "love on first sight" when it comes to music.

[Lady J]

Urban Music makes sense in my opinion. I mean you have groups like Pussycat Dolls, Sugarbabes, N.E.R.D, Thaitanium, and people like Talvin Singh and Justin Timberlake who are all different but all fall under that category and they arent all black. So it makes sense. It is music that appeals to urban youth culture. Its not just politically correct. It is descriptive of our multi-cultural, cross-polinated societies.

[cron]

Edison owns my lightbulbs.

I don't see anybody here claiming ownership of anything. How is acknowledging the influence/invention of a group of people claiming ownership?

Also, I suspect it wasn't black people who coined the phrase "black music".

edited for content, grammar, and gangsta shit

But that is my point exactly. I dont critise black or white people for labelling music, I just dont like the fact that it is labelled as such.

I respect the artists who make amazing music regardless of their race. It wasnt 'black people' who innovated jazz and blues music, its was a group of talented artists who just happened to be predominately black.

And you say you dont see harm in these race labels? Clearly you've never been called a 'thief' for jamming blues before. Or never been called a 'wigger' for trying to rap. These labels give idiots a cause to spread their hatred.

Sorry, but this is a fact not some ill informed opinion. Labelling music 'black' or 'white' is not constructive in the slightest. Neither does it benefit the artists who pioneered the music.

That's a perfectly fair point, but my argument is that the black in black music does not refer to race, it refers to culture. More specifically, a still underepresented culture.

[dharmawan]

Craig who?

Just kidding, but he has disappeared over here. And yes you are right, it works one way. Seldom does a song from abroad make it on the charts here even though that used to be very common in the past. It is just homogenization, mass marketing and californication of american entertainment. What i dont understand is why people in other countries don't band together to offer an alternative to Hollywood, Madison Ave, etc. The US is only 300 million people.

yeah actually craig david has disappeared over here as well! joss stone i understand is fairly big over there right now? i think she had a US production team, label and band though, i remember questlove and angie stone being involved. and i know some top UK drum&bass and hiphop producers have been doing production work for fairly mainstream NYC rappers very recently. but it is still very one way like you said

as much as i'd like to see something shake things up a bit i doubt european countries are going to team up for another hollywood anytime soon... europe is proper fragmented, lots of small countries with their own languages and ways to do things, not like the states with one language and mainstream culture

Wait until China and India get really rolling. I've seen some remarkable things from there but sadly most is aimed at a domestic audience (more with China than with India). And of course J-Pop is J-pop. as is K-Pop.

The future is east.

i know a lot about indian music but embarrassingly little about chinese music, so thats going to be really interesting. china seems to be fairly protective of its own culture but i reckon the americans are well positioned there right now, youve been doing the brand promotion, mass media/marketing legwork for time in china. so whens g unit having their album launch over there

Because back during slavery times, years ago many Indians were involved in the Carribean so the brought some of their musical heritage no doubt.

see: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/Di ... freed.html

interesting..i was thinking that might be the case but id never heard of it before. that really does explain the link

that works both ways - new bhangra stuff lends heavily from dancehall and hiphop

[tee boy]

Indeed. It seems that the recent explosion in Urban music (at least here in the UK) has done much. I think most people would now consider Urban music to univerally assosiated with youth culture rather than any particular ethnic group.

And that is as sound as a big fat round pound imo.

[Left Headphone]

It comes off as if "you" think all black music is not intelligent. When I do a song, I don't just throw a bunch of sounds together and say I'm done. Your comments are very biased and unsupported.

well, intelligent may have been a bad choice for a word, forgive me, i'm not a native english speaker.

i am not against black music at all, and i guess at least the thread-starter got it

i was talking about the approach of making music, and listening to music as well.
i have friends that do listen to hip hop, but say things like "well, not because i like it, but one is SUPPOSED to listen to hip hop these days, it's on mtv man."

is that intelligent?
as i said, bad choice for a word.

but it's definately not "just do it"


of course there are positive aspects as well.
i lived through that typical "it's on mtv, i CAN'T listen to mtv crap, no matter if i like it, it's crap, cause it's on mtv" teenage-drama, and i DID find a world of music that is way beyond mtv.
since then i have "learned" to listen to popular music again if i happen to like it, but checking out unpopular stuff just because it's unpopular definately helped to form my current musical taste, which is a mix of "just do it" and "well, i guess this could grow on me", and sometimes music DOES grow on you, wel all know that, it's not always about "love on first sight" when it comes to music.

Hey man, its cool. I just get a little heated when someone questions my intelligence or my people's intelligence. Good luck with the music...

[tee boy]

Edison owns my lightbulbs.

I don't see anybody here claiming ownership of anything. How is acknowledging the influence/invention of a group of people claiming ownership?

Also, I suspect it wasn't black people who coined the phrase "black music".

edited for content, grammar, and gangsta shit

But that is my point exactly. I dont critise black or white people for labelling music, I just dont like the fact that it is labelled as such.

I respect the artists who make amazing music regardless of their race. It wasnt 'black people' who innovated jazz and blues music, its was a group of talented artists who just happened to be predominately black.

And you say you dont see harm in these race labels? Clearly you've never been called a 'thief' for jamming blues before. Or never been called a 'wigger' for trying to rap. These labels give idiots a cause to spread their hatred.

Sorry, but this is a fact not some ill informed opinion. Labelling music 'black' or 'white' is not constructive in the slightest. Neither does it benefit the artists who pioneered the music.

I get you. I live in the South(US). And down here, is were a major of this labeling stuff started. We should give credit to the individual. I know I didn't help Jimi Hendrix write Purple Haze. So, I can't take any credit for that. Hell, I wasn't even born yet.

Precisely, if every took that stance then we'd probably be far better off.

But i guess since music has become such a huge industry, its much easier to give demographic groups their 'own' music. Just another example of why art and business have no place mixing.