OT: Mixing Mastering.

[Scant]

I did this track with a friend of mine recently. A Ballad titled, "Still Need You Now". Actually it was two tracks, another titled, "I wish". After the recording I did a quick mix and put it to CD, just for listening purposes.

I left it in its 'imperfect' in the car. My dad heard them, my mom, sis, bro and about 10 of my friends. All but 4 of them told how nice the track sounded, how 'tite' they sounded, how beautiful Roze sings. They each wanted a copy of it.

The other 4, who are all musicians gave a different feedback. 'The mix was muddy', 'The strings at the end needed a little something. Try some reverb', 'The kick and the bass are clashing', I think it would be better if the guitar wasn't so loud', and 'At the end when only the vocals and the strings are playing it would be cool if the song brought back all the other instruments for a grand finale'.

Now, I knew what my friends were telling me was true and I knew that I hadn't done anything really with the mix. But my famly and some of my friends, the consumer, wasn't aware of all these faults. So I thought why do I sit and try to get that 'perfect' mix when most people don't check for it.

/end rant.

~Duane~

[Tritonman1]

Thats always the problem when you ask an opinion from someone else in the same field as yours. The best opinion is the consumers opinion because they are the ones who will buy your product.

[telebunke]

If the consumers like it, it's a good step. The thing is that consumers can not hear technical issues that might or might not be there - they are consumers.
2nd thing is that mixing is also a matter of taste, so even if you had a veeery good mix, you could easily find musician's / engineers to complain about it.
3rd thing is that many people cannot stay objective and state their opinion as an ultimate truth. That's why I often say things like: If it was my song I'd try and change this or that, but it's gonna be fine if you keep it, cause it's a matter of taste as well.

tele

[tonio]

good replies so far. I agree that it is subjective.

IMO, You should strive to make a good mix to your liking BUT with the objective of having the mix translatable to many systems. Meaning the mix should sound be similar( or will not have any spectrum issues) on every system you play them on wether its a studio, boom box, home stereo, car, truck etc.

T

[Frunobulax]

While nonmusicians may not consciously be aware of the differences between a good mix and a poor one, they will usually notice the difference on some level, even if they cannot articulate what the difference is. So if they like a song that currently has a muddy mix, they will tend to like it even better if it is mixed well.

And most people don't tend to expect high quality sound from a home studio and are impressed by anything that doesn't sound like it was recorded with a Mr. Microphone plugged into a cheap cassette recorder. They are really blown away then when it sounds close to a professional level.

Nonmusicians tend to focus more on the song, whereas musicians probably focus more on the technical aspects of the performance and recording.

Anyway, I think the better recorded and mixed something is, the more effective it will be even if the average person may not be all that conscious of the difference. Subconsciously, at least, they will notice the difference, and your efforts will not be in vain.

Plus, and most importantly, you can notice the difference between a good mix and muddy mix. I'm not that concerned with what others think of my stuff, though it's nice to get some feedback. What I care about is whether I am happy with it. If I like it, then it's a success!

[harmony gardens]

I think every field has this dillema. I was in the Country Club business for 22 years and saw this with food all the time there. We used to get these highly trained chefs who would come in and could prepare great gormet meals, and the guys would usually order the spagetti special. Then they would looked with distain on the membership, and say they were meat and potatoes people. (IMHO, these talented chefs could not erase the memories of my grandma's chicken.)

The point is that sometimes we can get caught up in the technical side of things, and forget that most consumers want some lyrics they can relate to, and something to tap thier feet to, and maybe some sonik wow things. We try to offer more, imitating things we enjoy, and hope others will like it, too. Often it's illusive, but finding the right balance between technical prowess and reaching an audience is the challenge we face as musicians. Unless we are motivated by our own enjoyment of the creative process, we will want to please some listeners at some point.

[Tritonman1]

Opinions are like a**holes. Everybody has one.

[Scant]

I understand what you guys are saying, it is subjective, however, even if I do a mix that translates well across the board, the average consumer won't really realise it.

It's like MP3s. They used to sound good to me...not anymore but everyone uses MP3s without a care in the world. To them it sound 'right'. But we, engineers we try to make it sound 'perfect'.

My friend recently broke up with her boyfriend and was telling that, 'No truer words we spoken than those in Still Need You Now'. The way she said it gave me chills...I felt bad for her but good for me.

But she didn't care that it was muddy, and I don't think that if it was mixed well it wouldn't had any different impact on her.

[Tritonman1]

Music is defined by the ear of the listener.

My last saying, I swear.

[rollasoc]

good replies so far. I agree that it is subjective.
T

True, the last Metallica album, I'm sure the band, producer and label were happy with the mix, the rest of the world thought is sounded terrible.

Rollasoc

[Mr. Tunes]

True, the last Metallica album, I'm sure the band, producer and label were happy with the mix, the rest of the world thought is sounded terrible.

Did you watch Some Kind of Monster? that explains it. i dont think anyone was happy with that album by any means.

[pheeleep]

I think every field has this dillema. I was in the Country Club business for 22 years and saw this with food all the time there.

I went to club med last year on vacation, and you have access to never ending tables full of food ( lobster, gourmet meals, etc.. ). All the food is inclusive, and you can eat as much as you want...

I was shocked to see the majority of Americans there were pilling up burgers with fries on their plates.. no lobster, no gourmet food.. burgers!

[Kim Lajoie]

Frunobulax is right - most non-musicians can tell the difference, they just have difficulty identifying it (let alone articulating it). For me the magic moment is not when a non-musician says "it sounds good". For me, I know I've passed the line when a non-musician mistakes my work for "a normal CD".

-Kim.

[Mr. Tunes]

well a big thing these days is the thought of an "iTunes/iPod generation". I prefer to call it the Winamp generation but basically it's the idea that people like to mix up their music listening more now. your tracks are likely to get scrambled into a shmorgaseboard of different productions, and this is where the average listener knows if you are good at mixing and mastering. if they have to get up to adjust the volume of the mix when your song comes on, and then have to get up again after your song plays and a different artist comes on, they'll know something is up with your production values.

unfortunately it's hard for us to compete with big studio mixes. they slam the suckers to the roof and do a great job of it.

[telebunke]

unfortunately it's hard for us to compete with big studio mixes. they slam the suckers to the roof and do a great job of it.

slamming the mix to the roof is fashion these days, you need skill to do it, but it's not about having a quality mix.
Often, being louder is perceived as being better, but that is not the case with our master limiters - we all know that they kill the dynamics of a mix. For some styles of music it may be cool, though.

tele