The last few days, I've spent a lot of time going through the tutorial lessons in the live 4 demo, and playing around with the new beta. I'm trying to talk myself into getting this, because I've got a great deal with the liveLite prog that came with my m-audio keystation.
So now, I'm brain-weary..easy enough these days, but look, in the piano roll, to extend a note it says I have to go out of draw mode?
Talk to me Live users! Why do you love it and give me some tunes you've done!
ableton live
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- KVRAF
- 2211 posts since 2 Jan, 2003 from right here...
... I'm thinking about Live, too. But more if I should dump Cubase SX in favour to Live. I didn't like Live's midi editing at first, that's why I didn't upgrade back then. I did now, but rather because I'm amazed of it's dj features. Now I found out that in Live I could also do almost everything I've done in Cubase, i.e. midi editing, recording, mixing, mixdown - done (...I'm also aware of that I might have used only 2% of Cubase's capabilities...). Looking at SX3's features and thinking of these rumors about the dongle using some of the performance, I think it was right to stay with SX2. So if anybody has an opinion on this (selling Cubase and going on with Live 5), please share.
So far for being off-topic and to your question, Bluedad - I like Live very much because it really gives you this feeling of having your hands on the music, that you're working directly on the musical bits of your composition. Still love Kontakt but I don't have to fire it up for a lot of things when I'm using Live. I also like its freezing in favour on Cubase's because you're able to start the freezed clip in your composition, wherever you want (as far as I know, the freeze function of SX2, for instance doesn't allow you to move frozen audio within your arrangement). And finally (... and actually not knowing which sequencer you're using...), you have to switch from draw-mode to lengthen a note, but you don't have to if you want to erase a note - simply click on it again. In Cubase you'd have to switch between the pencil and the eraser tool for that...
So far for being off-topic and to your question, Bluedad - I like Live very much because it really gives you this feeling of having your hands on the music, that you're working directly on the musical bits of your composition. Still love Kontakt but I don't have to fire it up for a lot of things when I'm using Live. I also like its freezing in favour on Cubase's because you're able to start the freezed clip in your composition, wherever you want (as far as I know, the freeze function of SX2, for instance doesn't allow you to move frozen audio within your arrangement). And finally (... and actually not knowing which sequencer you're using...), you have to switch from draw-mode to lengthen a note, but you don't have to if you want to erase a note - simply click on it again. In Cubase you'd have to switch between the pencil and the eraser tool for that...
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- KVRAF
- 2875 posts since 28 Jan, 2004 from Da Nang, Vietnam
There are a bunch of small things I like about Live, but the two main features that keep me with it are:
1. Session view. I can just start throwing things together to try out ideas without having to worry about the linear flow of the track. Experimenting this way is much more spontaneous than it is in a linear sequencer.
2. You can capture *anything* you can hear as audio. You can change patches, move markers around etc. and capture the results as audio. This allows for lots of cool tricks, in particular beat mixups.
Cubase, Logic etc all feel to me like products of an earlier musical age. They're clearly designed with a hardware paradigm in mind and obviously evolved from tools designed to sequence external gear. Live feels refreshingly new and lightweight. It can't match the bigger apps feature for feature but I much prefer the way it does implement the features that really matter to me. Now that Live 5 has freeze performance is a non-issue.
Here are a couple of older tunes I did in Live 4. Not sure what they prove exactly, but since you asked:
http://www.caddr.com/music/Goodbye.mp3 (live + absynth)
http://www.caddr.com/music/Live%20Under%20Glass.mp3 (live/vanguard/fm7)
http://www.caddr.com/music/Low.mp3 (live + z3ta)
1. Session view. I can just start throwing things together to try out ideas without having to worry about the linear flow of the track. Experimenting this way is much more spontaneous than it is in a linear sequencer.
2. You can capture *anything* you can hear as audio. You can change patches, move markers around etc. and capture the results as audio. This allows for lots of cool tricks, in particular beat mixups.
Cubase, Logic etc all feel to me like products of an earlier musical age. They're clearly designed with a hardware paradigm in mind and obviously evolved from tools designed to sequence external gear. Live feels refreshingly new and lightweight. It can't match the bigger apps feature for feature but I much prefer the way it does implement the features that really matter to me. Now that Live 5 has freeze performance is a non-issue.
Here are a couple of older tunes I did in Live 4. Not sure what they prove exactly, but since you asked:
http://www.caddr.com/music/Goodbye.mp3 (live + absynth)
http://www.caddr.com/music/Live%20Under%20Glass.mp3 (live/vanguard/fm7)
http://www.caddr.com/music/Low.mp3 (live + z3ta)
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- KVRist
- 178 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from Washington DC
I also use Live for just about all my tunes (although I sometimes use Sonar to complete them). For me it's the perfect "scratch pad" to play and play and play. And then go and "remix" what I've put down.
Here's a couple of tunes done recently using some of ConcreteFX beautiful toys...
http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=631
http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=424
And one with my guitar, Wusikstation and Nebula M42
http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=422
Live is the perfect creative tool for me because I like to doodle with my instruments in one session. Then I use the song view to help sequence the tune (like kuniklo said
).
Here's a couple of tunes done recently using some of ConcreteFX beautiful toys...
http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=631
http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=424
And one with my guitar, Wusikstation and Nebula M42
http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=422
Live is the perfect creative tool for me because I like to doodle with my instruments in one session. Then I use the song view to help sequence the tune (like kuniklo said
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- KVRist
- 152 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Oregon
I'm in the same boat as you bluedad. I currently use FL Studio exclusively, but since Live 5 was announced, my curiosity was peaked again. FL is an amazing program, but there are a few things that always bug me to the point that I at least try to keep an eye on what else is available as far as hosts.
I've gone through all the Live 4 tutorials and read 2/3 of the Live 4 manual. Now that the Live 5 beta is available to me, I've been playing with that. So far I'm very impressed with it. All of my biggest gripes with FL Studio are not an issue with Live, so it's very tempting. I also have a lite version of Live that came with my MIDI controller, and there's only a few days left to upgrade and get Live 5 at a discounted price.
FL has a lot of cool things that Live does not, so the choice is tough. I know I can rewire both apps together, and I might do that occasionally, but I prefer to use only one host to keep things at least somewhat simple.
Some of the major pros and cons for me so far:
Live > FL:
-The section in the manual about latency. Finally someone tells it like it is and gives you the means to get it right. One thing the Live 4 manual didn't mention (I don't think), but I read on the Ableton forums, was that the "overall latency compensation" setting is bypassed when monitoring through Live. Genius. I have no idea what's going on with latency when recording audio in FL.
- I can record mono tracks! This is probably my biggest gripe with FL. I know you can get there in FL using several workarounds, but its a pain. I like that I can see audio waveforms when streaming from disk too.
-I like having a standard arrangement view again. I have an easier time constructing a song in this type of view than I do in FL's Playlist. The Playlist is great for constructing loops and short clips, which is what it was originally designed for, but it gets messy for me when trying to finish a song.
-I like to have my CC automation visibly aligned to my MIDI notes. Live's automation may not be as flexible as FL's but it's easier to use in lots of ways. I wish FL would combine the event editor and the piano roll.
-I've heard that Live will eventually add support for time signature changes in the arrangement view, which is more than I can say for FL.
-Multiple MIDI inputs, although I think FL might be planning to add this.
-The Session View looks to be a lot of fun and a great composition tool. Since I'm not a Live user yet, I'm not sure how well it will fit into my style of working, but considering how much I used to use my Line 6 delay looper pedal before I had a computer, I think I'll use it a lot.
-Time Stretching is more powerful in Live, but I'm not sure how much I'll actually use Warp Markers.
FL > Live:
-The piano roll in FL can't be beat.
-The FL slicer. Having a loop slicer so closely integrated into your host is really very nice.
-I love the randomization and other tools for arranging notes in FL, lots of fun.
-Much better use of keyboard shortcuts and mouse buttons/wheels, although Live 5 is an improvement in this area.
-As I said before, more flexible automation. Things like the Peak Controller and Formula Controller are great fun as well, but they aren't things I can't live without.
-Price.
There are lots of other things I'm leaving out of course, but these are the things that come to mind first for me.
I've gone through all the Live 4 tutorials and read 2/3 of the Live 4 manual. Now that the Live 5 beta is available to me, I've been playing with that. So far I'm very impressed with it. All of my biggest gripes with FL Studio are not an issue with Live, so it's very tempting. I also have a lite version of Live that came with my MIDI controller, and there's only a few days left to upgrade and get Live 5 at a discounted price.
FL has a lot of cool things that Live does not, so the choice is tough. I know I can rewire both apps together, and I might do that occasionally, but I prefer to use only one host to keep things at least somewhat simple.
Some of the major pros and cons for me so far:
Live > FL:
-The section in the manual about latency. Finally someone tells it like it is and gives you the means to get it right. One thing the Live 4 manual didn't mention (I don't think), but I read on the Ableton forums, was that the "overall latency compensation" setting is bypassed when monitoring through Live. Genius. I have no idea what's going on with latency when recording audio in FL.
- I can record mono tracks! This is probably my biggest gripe with FL. I know you can get there in FL using several workarounds, but its a pain. I like that I can see audio waveforms when streaming from disk too.
-I like having a standard arrangement view again. I have an easier time constructing a song in this type of view than I do in FL's Playlist. The Playlist is great for constructing loops and short clips, which is what it was originally designed for, but it gets messy for me when trying to finish a song.
-I like to have my CC automation visibly aligned to my MIDI notes. Live's automation may not be as flexible as FL's but it's easier to use in lots of ways. I wish FL would combine the event editor and the piano roll.
-I've heard that Live will eventually add support for time signature changes in the arrangement view, which is more than I can say for FL.
-Multiple MIDI inputs, although I think FL might be planning to add this.
-The Session View looks to be a lot of fun and a great composition tool. Since I'm not a Live user yet, I'm not sure how well it will fit into my style of working, but considering how much I used to use my Line 6 delay looper pedal before I had a computer, I think I'll use it a lot.
-Time Stretching is more powerful in Live, but I'm not sure how much I'll actually use Warp Markers.
FL > Live:
-The piano roll in FL can't be beat.
-The FL slicer. Having a loop slicer so closely integrated into your host is really very nice.
-I love the randomization and other tools for arranging notes in FL, lots of fun.
-Much better use of keyboard shortcuts and mouse buttons/wheels, although Live 5 is an improvement in this area.
-As I said before, more flexible automation. Things like the Peak Controller and Formula Controller are great fun as well, but they aren't things I can't live without.
-Price.
There are lots of other things I'm leaving out of course, but these are the things that come to mind first for me.
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
rob-
- something special
- Topic Starter
- 8629 posts since 16 Mar, 2002 from Birmingham, Alabama
thanks for the thoughts y'all.
I'm going to give it some more play, I know times running out on the ugrade deal.
I've been using Cubase SX2, but also have OrionPlat, Fl Studio, Acid and EXT..maybe it's all a bit overkill and I just need to stick within what I've got. But the premise of Live sounds wonderful.
Oh, and the tunes kuniklo and gentleharp are wonderful! Not what I expected at all!
I'm going to give it some more play, I know times running out on the ugrade deal.
I've been using Cubase SX2, but also have OrionPlat, Fl Studio, Acid and EXT..maybe it's all a bit overkill and I just need to stick within what I've got. But the premise of Live sounds wonderful.
Oh, and the tunes kuniklo and gentleharp are wonderful! Not what I expected at all!
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Left Headphone Left Headphone https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=19118
- KVRian
- 945 posts since 30 Mar, 2004
AL5beta seem like a winner. I may have found me a new host. Soon, I will a former user of Sonar4 and FLS5.
I can kill two birds with stone...
I can kill two birds with stone...
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- KVRist
- 378 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Victoria BC
I love Live, it is imo the best piece of software ever written. Simple, powerful, stable, fast and intuitive. It has been as rock solid as a piece of hardware for me. I got it to crash once with a buggy vst plug and when I relaunched, Live asked me if I'd like to recover the last session, and there it was just as I had left it, I didn't lose a thing!bluedad wrote: So now, I'm brain-weary..easy enough these days, but look, in the piano roll, to extend a note it says I have to go out of draw mode?
Talk to me Live users! Why do you love it and give me some tunes you've done!
I don't use much midi, I usually record straight to audio, and Live makes this very easy, you can record a vsti right to audio within the program in realtime. I think if you untick the little pencil tool at the top by the transport you'll be able to draw and resize in the midi edior.
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- KVRAF
- 5350 posts since 8 Aug, 2003 from Berlin Germany
I would love to give Live another try but right now any software that doesn't have a modular chaining thing is a major turn-off.
I'm amazed software makers are still making sequeners that aren't modular and loadable as a VST! It's like the 21st cent. already. Mixers and strips are so not OO.
I'm amazed software makers are still making sequeners that aren't modular and loadable as a VST! It's like the 21st cent. already. Mixers and strips are so not OO.
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- KVRist
- 495 posts since 5 Sep, 2002 from Boston, Mass
I knew Live was going to be special when I read about it a few years ago, but with Live4 and now Live5, its really the sequencer to beat (imo) if you:
a) Have any interest in DJaying (or engaging in DJ-like activities)
b) Enjoy playing live instruments, or are used to instantaneous feedback from instruments
c) Don't need to use huge sample libs, or do overly complex midi editing
Some people complain about the midi editor, which in some respects, if you're used to non-realtime music making I can completely understand. However, if you like to work at the speed of inspiration, then Live really destroys the competition.
I could go on for pages about why I love this app, and if you have any targeted questions, about how or why I use Live, please PM me.
Here are a couple of quick points as to why I really dig live
a) Outside of a few exceptions, the audio engine NEVER stops, no matter what you do
b) Its overly simplistic to record live instruments (for example, often for a break during work I'll import a jazz mp3, and turn on my mic and record myself playing flute / sax over the tune)
c) MIDI EDITING!!! in particular drums. The ability to create a 4 bar midi loop, and play drums realtime and overdub yourself until you get the part/groove you want, without ever having to stop playback or 'tweak the midi with the mouse' is just BRILLIANT for me.
d) The fact you can just press the global record button and do whatever the heck you want, including tweaking vst/vstis and it just records everything you do, at which point you can go back into arrangement view and change particular things you didn't like.
e) After recording midi / audio, being able to just click the clip, and have it play back in sync immediately.
f) Clip envelopes! Such a smooth elegant way to modulate parameters. The ability to take a 4 bar drum loop, and unlink the clip envelope so you can extend a filter sweep over 20 bars is just amazing!
g) Warp Engine! The new complex warp mode is so usable and sounds so good its scary! I do some remixes from time to time, and my friends always ask me how I can get my loops in sync so quickly
I could go on to z with no problems, but it really is a stellar app.
When approaching Live, I'd suggest you keep these things in mind:
a) Treat it like LIVE, not like 'just another sequencer'. Lots of people I've showed the demo to instantly want it to replace sonar/cubase/fl etc etc. While it can emulate that kind of thing, thats not where lives strength lies imo.
b) Live's emphasis is on workflow, and efficiency. If you enjoy creating a custom drum module in energy-xt loaded into P5v2 which is rewired into a cubase drum map thats customized with midi control changes etc etc etc. Live probably isn't for you. IMO its' really for people like me who prefer to sit at a keyboard, or use my wx-5 and just play stuff realtime.
I'll stop now before I look like a bigger fanboy then I already am.
a) Have any interest in DJaying (or engaging in DJ-like activities)
b) Enjoy playing live instruments, or are used to instantaneous feedback from instruments
c) Don't need to use huge sample libs, or do overly complex midi editing
Some people complain about the midi editor, which in some respects, if you're used to non-realtime music making I can completely understand. However, if you like to work at the speed of inspiration, then Live really destroys the competition.
I could go on for pages about why I love this app, and if you have any targeted questions, about how or why I use Live, please PM me.
Here are a couple of quick points as to why I really dig live
a) Outside of a few exceptions, the audio engine NEVER stops, no matter what you do
b) Its overly simplistic to record live instruments (for example, often for a break during work I'll import a jazz mp3, and turn on my mic and record myself playing flute / sax over the tune)
c) MIDI EDITING!!! in particular drums. The ability to create a 4 bar midi loop, and play drums realtime and overdub yourself until you get the part/groove you want, without ever having to stop playback or 'tweak the midi with the mouse' is just BRILLIANT for me.
d) The fact you can just press the global record button and do whatever the heck you want, including tweaking vst/vstis and it just records everything you do, at which point you can go back into arrangement view and change particular things you didn't like.
e) After recording midi / audio, being able to just click the clip, and have it play back in sync immediately.
f) Clip envelopes! Such a smooth elegant way to modulate parameters. The ability to take a 4 bar drum loop, and unlink the clip envelope so you can extend a filter sweep over 20 bars is just amazing!
g) Warp Engine! The new complex warp mode is so usable and sounds so good its scary! I do some remixes from time to time, and my friends always ask me how I can get my loops in sync so quickly
I could go on to z with no problems, but it really is a stellar app.
When approaching Live, I'd suggest you keep these things in mind:
a) Treat it like LIVE, not like 'just another sequencer'. Lots of people I've showed the demo to instantly want it to replace sonar/cubase/fl etc etc. While it can emulate that kind of thing, thats not where lives strength lies imo.
b) Live's emphasis is on workflow, and efficiency. If you enjoy creating a custom drum module in energy-xt loaded into P5v2 which is rewired into a cubase drum map thats customized with midi control changes etc etc etc. Live probably isn't for you. IMO its' really for people like me who prefer to sit at a keyboard, or use my wx-5 and just play stuff realtime.
I'll stop now before I look like a bigger fanboy then I already am.
If it sounds good it is good.
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
I try and stay out of draw mode anyway. You can still enter a note but you need to use a double click to do it. The only time I really use draw mode is when I'm entering drums or tightly sequenced bass parts.bluedad wrote:So now, I'm brain-weary..easy enough these days, but look, in the piano roll, to extend a note it says I have to go out of draw mode?
You can also toggle it of and on quickly using the Ctrl+B shortcut.
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- something special
- Topic Starter
- 8629 posts since 16 Mar, 2002 from Birmingham, Alabama
true enough, I rarely use draw mode when I have my keyboard at home, except for drums and checking my bass notes.JohnVulich wrote: I try and stay out of draw mode anyway. You can still enter a note but you need to use a double click to do it. The only time I really use draw mode is when I'm entering drums or tightly sequenced bass parts.
You can also toggle it of and on quickly with the B key.
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- KVRist
- 152 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Oregon
Okay, so I just decided to upgrade my Live Lite, I had to google the upgrade page because I can't seem to get there browsing through ableton.com.
I went through part of the ordering process and I was hit with an error message partway through... something about "please make sure your browser accepts cookies". My browser is not set to block cookies. I tried IE and Firefox, neither works. Anyone have any success upgrading their Live Lite to the full version of Live 4?
I went through part of the ordering process and I was hit with an error message partway through... something about "please make sure your browser accepts cookies". My browser is not set to block cookies. I tried IE and Firefox, neither works. Anyone have any success upgrading their Live Lite to the full version of Live 4?
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- KVRist
- 200 posts since 20 Jan, 2003 from Lancashire, UK
I bought the boxed version of Live4 last night and I'll qualify for the free Live5 upgrade. I'm really not sure why I didn't get it sooner, I've been struggling with Cubase for years! This is really 'me'; it's my ultimate workflow.
I've been playing around with the lessons all afternoon and I'm constantly being blown away by the power and simplicity of it all. Automation is an absolute doddle and my UC-33 controller is finally getting the use and attention that it deserves.
If you're interested in any form of electronic music <i>or</i> you primarily work in software then I'd wholeheartedly recommend Live.
Take the plunge!
I've been playing around with the lessons all afternoon and I'm constantly being blown away by the power and simplicity of it all. Automation is an absolute doddle and my UC-33 controller is finally getting the use and attention that it deserves.
If you're interested in any form of electronic music <i>or</i> you primarily work in software then I'd wholeheartedly recommend Live.
Take the plunge!