KVR Audio

Hypertone · Post by **Hypertone** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:51 am

Does a host with PDC compensate for a latency as big as SIR's? The reason I'm asking is I'd like to know if I could use realtime in in Live 5, which now has pdc.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:10 am

Hypertone · Post by **Hypertone** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:15 am

Sweet!

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:19 am

Im not sure how good the latency would be for live performance tho....prob best to dry a few diff IR's to see which is fastest.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:36 pm

Im not sure how good the latency would be for live performance tho....prob best to dry a few diff IR's to see which is fastest.

For live performance, it's difficult, to say the least (unless you like using reverb as a delay

)

blortblort · Post by **blortblort** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:49 pm

Hypertone wrote:Does a host with PDC compensate for a latency as big as SIR's? The reason I'm asking is I'd like to know if I could use realtime in in Live 5, which now has pdc.

That was the first thing I tested on the first Beta of Live 5 that I DL'd. Yes! it does work, but you must make sure that the PDC option is *on*...Haven't checked the latest version to see how it defaults, but the first Beta I dl'd didn't default to PDC *on*...once I RTFM, and turned it on...hehehehehe

Much cool indeed!

I haven't really put the plug thru it's paces in L5, but it didn't seem to balk at all as an instrument effect in L5...YMMV

Hypertone · Post by **Hypertone** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:45 am

I recieved my Live 5 serial today!

I don't see an option for pdc, only plug-in buffer size. When I play a synth through SIR, I still get a delay. It seems less than Live4, but still about 100 milliseconds.

I tried changing the buffer size but it made no difference.

griels · Post by **griels** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:06 am

It's a fixed 8960 samples latency. How it affects other tracks depends on how the host handles PDC... In theory, if the host knows in advance what the audio to be effected is, it can offset it to compensate, without needing to delay tracks that vary in realtime... Bit of a can'o'worms though...

OMU · Post by **OMU** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:14 am

Kriminal wrote:Yes.

yeah it compensates it a bit but the latency is far from what you would expect. i think everybody knows about this issue of sir. it's almost legendary

griels · Post by **griels** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:26 am

Nah, PDC only really works on non-realtime sources, where the content can be anticipated and effected in advance. In this case, it can be very effective. On realtime input, the plugin latency will always come into play, in which case some PDC implementations delay everything else equally to compensate... Not great for live performance... I haven't checked how Live 5 deals with it yet however.. I intend to do so this weekend.

In any case, I'm not aware of any host that doesn't compensate for the full amount of latency given by the plugin. As far as I know it's kind of an all-or-nothing deal.

pitchdrifter · Post by **pitchdrifter** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:07 am

Well PDC actually works realtime, too. It delays everything to the slowest link in the chain, so that things don't run out of sync. The downside to that when playing a vsti/dxi in realtime is that obviously output of whatever you play is going to be delayed from the moment you hit the key on the keyboard.
As for convolution verbs.. you should give pristine space light a try. That is capable of running at a 1.5ms latency, and therefore you can use it in realtime without any delay problems.
PDC you should have enabled at all times, really. At least if timing is of any concern, and it usually is.

griels · Post by **griels** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:12 am

griels wrote:On realtime input, the plugin latency will always come into play, in which case some PDC implementations delay everything else equally to compensate...

pitchdrifter · Post by **pitchdrifter** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:19 am

Sneaky monkey!
I was pointing out that PDC is (usually anyway, I'm sure theres some host that handles this differently) always active, and it always does the same thing.. delay everything to the slowest link in the signal path(s). And no PDC implementation can look into the future, therefore when using a plugin with a very high latency, you always get the delay from keypress to sound output. Only solution to preserve a proper timing on everything when sequencing live is to use PDC. In order to make it bearable to play this way plugins with low latencies have to be employed, e.g. instead of sir go for pristine space for example.
Wasn't contradicting you, Griels, just trying to simplify what PDC actually does, always (realtime playing of instruments or pure sequencer playback). And how to deal with it.

griels · Post by **griels** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:20 am

Indeed.

blortblort · Post by **blortblort** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:49 am

Hypertone wrote:I recieved my Live 5 serial today! I don't see an option for pdc, only plug-in buffer size. When I play a synth through SIR, I still get a delay. It seems less than Live4, but still about 100 milliseconds.

I tried changing the buffer size but it made no difference.

in Live 5, go to the "option" pulldown and select "delay compensation". As with the betas, this option apparently does not default to ON, but once you turn it on, it does compensate, and you can play in realtime with SIR. Verrry cool. Been looking fwd to being able to use this thing in realtime...for a long time

S.I.R. reverb and PDC question