new fruity stuff

[blurk]

which other app stretches to 2 monitor when maximized? the default behavior is to stretch over the monitor it's on, nothing more. So, just like with any other app, if you want it over your 2 monitors, you stretch the window over your 2 monitors. There's nothing weird in this.

Sorry, I think I am not describing things well enough. I'm certainly not asking for the app to do something nonstandard like being maximised over two monitors. Anything but that. You see, I don't like running applications maximised at all. I like lots of little overlapping windows, so I prefer the style of apps where you can drag any child window outside the main window, and any window can be pushed in front of any other window. So, yeah, those floating windows that always stay in front in MS Visual Studio (or at least the last version I used ages ago) bug the crap out of me. Anyway, by not clipping any child window to the main window, the user can drag them anywhere without having to stretch the main window over two desktops. And, as we've established, you can do this for some of the child windows in FL by using the detach feature. So that is good.

But this should be a thread about all the nifty new goodies coming in FL, so sorry for derailing it with usability comments.

[hoffy]

I want to see FL communicate with my hardware devices.

Hmm... it does. You mean something more advanced like some of the Big Boys do? I can see that as useful indeed, but I assume it's a tall order - and not necessarily what the apparent focus group in IL's view needs...

(Somehow I'm beginning to feel that apps like FL are suffering from targetting the lowest common nominator...)

You mean lowest common denominator, i think. Anyway. I have lots of hardware synths and fx units and i've never been able to get them to talk to eachother at all.

I don't like Fruitys Piano Roll.

Eh? It's by far the best one I've come across... by far. No stupid tool switching, select the correct tool and you can carry out *everything* without switching tools, just by using modifier keys. And the modifier keys work logically, not some weird monkey business with "first alt-click, then press shift and drag to alter a parameter". And the extra tools that are available without switching tools (cutting notes springs to mind).

Compare to Cubase, energyXT, Live,Tracktion, Orion ... FL has the smoothest one. Sonar is the only host I'm not familiar with but somehow I find it rather impossible for it to have a better piano roll.

I can't find a way (and i won't at all be suprised if one exists) to simply select notes and duplicate them, like you can in both Pro-Tools and Cubase. In FL i have to:

1> Choose "Select" tool (E)
2> Select the notes
3> Ctrl+C
4> Ctrl+V
5> Change to "Brush" tool (B)
6> Click on the notes and then drag them.

In Pro Tools and Cubase: Select the notes, and then press Ctrl+D. Simple.

I also can't zoom in as far as i would like in Fl, and in many other ways as well, i find it cumbersome. But admitedly, i'm finding it a lot easier to use recently as i've played with it more. To be honest, i don't use it that much at all because I use Cubase&Pro Tools for MIDI stuff. Mabye its just that i'm used to the other piano rolls and they are therefore more intuitive to me =)

I want to be able to use my multiple output VST's.

But you can. It might not be the most elegant solution, as it assumes the user is in charge of things. But they're supported all right.

"it assumes the user is in charge of things"- that is false, in my opinion. I would like to use my VSTs as they were designed- so that i can seperately process their different outputs through the mixer with VST effects. In this case, my host (or one of them, at least ) is not allowing my Synths to be as flexible as they are supposed to be.

And a complete graphic overhaul.

Ahemm... I'd love to hear what you have in mind. I don't think it's the prettiest interface around, but still, I rank it rather high. The overall dark scheme works for prolonged sessions. Of course some things could be improved, but I guess it's again about catering the "needs" of the target audience.

I would like to see the mixer (for one) and other elements be resizable. But there are other things i don't like about the interface that would take too long to explain. In short, i would like FL to adhere to the same visual scheme the other 99% of Windows applications follow- For example the look (and feel) of the File/Edit/View menu...

And i would like to be able to use Windows shortcuts inside FL; you know, like when i press Alt+F, i want to see the File menu drop down.

Although I'm a mouse oriented person, yep. It's standard Windows functionality after all. While at it, customizable shortcuts. Just like the bigger boys in about any software category do. There's a plenty of shortcuts, but the keyboard juggling associated with it, urgh. I prefer it when I can customize the shortcuts so that tasks related to each other are accessible without even altering the hand's position on the keyboard (it makes work in graphic apps a breeze).

agreed. I also really like that in Cubase/Pro Tools and i assume Logic, you can import Keyboard Shortcuts from a different application- so i use exactly the same shortcuts in Cubase as I do in Pro Tools. Lots of these would be irrelevant because FL is a completely different program- but being able to add my own shortcuts would definately streamline my workflow with this app. Good idea mate =)

And FL needs a whole lot more options when rendering- for example, the option of rendering a file to mono (which is all i ever really do).

This one I don't really get... as about anything I can think of doing with rendered pieces works in apps I use just nicely in stereo.

I'm not the only person who wants to see the mono option back. It is imperitive when working across different applications, and especially for what i do. Its just a waste of disk space to render a file that is going to have exactly the same information in the left and right channels, and when that file then gets used in different applications- Cubase, Pro Tools, whatever- it is more flexible to have it in mono if thats all it is anyway.

Oh and I wish their GUI wasn't so.... ?Cartoony?
I know there are skins but how far do those go? Do they skin teh native plugins?

Cartoony (or toyish as is often said) to one person is useful, nice, not-eye-straining to another one... Skinnability would be a bonus, but from what I've gathered, it ain't gonna happen as the skins people made in the past have been horrible...

Errr.. i didn't say that =). I don't really agree with it either =)

I've only seen a few skinning efforts, mostly here on KVR and they've been just that... amateurish, no effort in legibility, or even the overall coherency.

PDC and freeze, hell yeah. The last time these were discussed (meaning when I participated in the discussion), it was said those are practically impossible due to all the routing etc. FL has. Which I can understand to a degree - but when you look at how other equally or more complex apps are able to pull it off... and the comment that "there's only a few plugins that need PDC". That was just appalling. While still a minority (remember, up to 49% is still minority ), there's a lot of plugins around that need it, and a lot of the really good ones. Ok, once again, stuff like EQs, compressors, convolution plugins and so on, some of which cost more than FL itself apparently aren't things the "target audience" uses... pfft

It's a great app, no doubt about that. But it needs to roll with the times. Pretty soon it's the only kid on the block that don't have features that are considered not only necessary but available in every other host...

I love my Waves Plugins. i love PSP Vintage Warmer. I love my PDC in Pro Tools and Cubase- and i don't believe any excuse that its not possible =)

Oh, and i love FL Studio. Its just that i don't want to see any more plugins, generators, or any other fancy shit. Just give me PDC and i'll be happy =)))

[JMC]

Haven't had that much time with the 5.02c demo, so my commentary was based on what I remember from the previous demo version (most likely 5.02)

Weird : The only thing that changed between the 5.0.2 & 5.0.2c installers was a problem with the DEP in SP2.

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

[geoslake]

One thing i dont like is that we have more and more plugin.
A great solution (imho) would have been (or would be but i guess its too late now), to have a kind of modular plugin.
One dll called FruityFX (or so), which we could configure (btrw load the algorhythm) to be a reverb, a delay, etc.
That would be a clean solution.
(but i know for a while that developpers dont care about making "clean" things (see registry shit etc))

[JMC]

The detached view looks like an afterthought for those with multiple monitors.

Indeed. Multiple monitors was not exactly what we had in mind in 1998 ...

the detached windows sit in front of the main window, which sucks if you like overlapping windows, and pushing less used windows behind.

The idea is to put the detached windows on another screen so they shouldn't overlap, no ?

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

[JMC]

to simply select notes and duplicate them, like you can in both Pro-Tools and Cubase.<

- ctrl-drag to select notes
- shift-drag your selection to clone/copy

Its just that i don't want to see any more plugins, generators, or any other fancy shit.

There's a comon misunderstanding about the fact that we'd be wasting our time on external plugins like DirectWave, Fruity Scratcher, Wave Traveller, Chrome, Slayer, ...

These were all developed by external developers and (other than the testing) hardly influenced the development of FL itself.

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

[jmh]

You mean lowest common denominator, i think. Anyway. I have lots of hardware synths and fx units and i've never been able to get them to talk to eachother at all.

Yep. Denominator - couldn't remember it correctly
Can't really comment the MIDI functionality, the hardware I own is scattered between friends, haven't used them besides 909 occasionally in years

"it assumes the user is in charge of things"- that is false, in my opinion. I would like to use my VSTs as they were designed- so that i can seperately process their different outputs through the mixer with VST effects. In this case, my host (or one of them, at least ) is not allowing my Synths to be as flexible as they are supposed to be.

Hmm... I thought all it took was letting FL know this - here's a thing I admit not knowing about since I haven't tried it. But it does support multi output VSTis and allows as many outputs as you configure the synths to use.

Accessing the different parts of a multitimbral synths is a different thing though... while not the most elegant way, at least it works "FL style" - using several MIDI out plugins configured to correct MIDI ports and channels.

Oh and I wish their GUI wasn't so.... ?Cartoony?
I know there are skins but how far do those go? Do they skin teh native plugins?

Cartoony (or toyish as is often said) to one person is useful, nice, not-eye-straining to another one... Skinnability would be a bonus, but from what I've gathered, it ain't gonna happen as the skins people made in the past have been horrible...

Errr.. i didn't say that =). I don't really agree with it either =)

My bad =) Thought I had fixed the quote, apparently I didn't.

jmc I checked out the manual before I commented about it. Either I did a bad job finding out about that marker functionality (which is possible after being awake for 24 hours) or it wasn't mentioned there. Either way, I'm still glad it's been expanded
... actually, though I'm in a rush, just checked the manual from 5.02 and couldn't find it, neither in Playlist - Playlist subtopic nor in Keyboard shortcuts.


Regards,

JMH

[hoffy]

to simply select notes and duplicate them, like you can in both Pro-Tools and Cubase.<

- ctrl-drag to select notes
- shift-drag your selection to clone/copy

As i said in the original post- i would not be suprised if a method existed for what i wanted- and as it is, i'm not suprised. Thanks for letting me know this =)

Its just that i don't want to see any more plugins, generators, or any other fancy shit.

There's a comon misunderstanding about the fact that we'd be wasting our time on external plugins like DirectWave, Fruity Scratcher, Wave Traveller, Chrome, Slayer, ...

These were all developed by external developers and (other than the testing) hardly influenced the development of FL itself.

[/quote]

Fair point. FL is getting better all the time, and all of the major updates have been quite special.

Although i did think of something just before- Plug-in management. I really like how in Cubase i can set up my plug-in directory structure. This is great when you've got dozens of plug-ins installed. I've got dozens already marked as favourites =).

jmh: I think we have a misunderstanding over multi out plugins- never mind =)

thanks jean marie!

[Programentalist]

jmh: I think we have a misunderstanding over multi out plugins- never mind =)

But you are aware that FL does indeed support multi-out and that you do get them on separate mixertracks, right?

[Hink]

Hoffy you keep mentioning the zoom...I dont know why...my eyes have gone downhill and as a result I need reading glasses, other things give me headaches, but by using the zoom box in the upper right corner of zoomable windows I have all the control I see needed...if you're using number shorcuts or the view choices you are missing ut on about 70% (guesstimation, I did count them all once) of the zoom choices...where as this is something that could easliy piss me off (not good zoom) and it doesn't I think you still may be missing what I'm saying...if you're saying it still doesn't zoom in enough either you need to see the eye doctor or maybe try a different tempo/time sig...

[Hink]

Hoffy you keep mentioning the zoom...I dont know why...my eyes have gone downhill and as a result I need reading glasses, other things give me headaches, but by using the zoom box in the upper right corner of zoomable windows I have all the control I see needed...if you're using number shorcuts or the view choices you are missing ut on about 70% (guesstimation, I did count them all once) of the zoom choices...where as this is something that could easliy piss me off (not good zoom) and it doesn't I think you still may be missing what I'm saying...if you're saying it still doesn't zoom in enough either you need to see the eye doctor or maybe try a different tempo/time sig...

so much for guessing

Playlist, I stopped counting at 125 different zoom levels

PR 25-30 levels of zoom

You can count the rest but if that's enough for these tired eyes I don't see your probleme with this...

[Debutante]

[/quote]

There's a comon misunderstanding about the fact that we'd be wasting our time on external plugins like DirectWave, Fruity Scratcher, Wave Traveller, Chrome, Slayer, ...

These were all developed by external developers and (other than the testing) hardly influenced the development of FL itself.

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)[/quote]



....WASTIMG YOUR TIME!!!???? I think NOT!!! Those are awesome tools. I think these are some of the features that keep FL as one of the most complete packages around. The Wave traveller and others are fantastic sound mangling and management tools, and may not really be something the average rocker or reggae or...freaking polka... artist is looking to use. Just because others find little or no use for them doesn't mean they are a waste of time at all. KEEP 'EM COMING MAN!!

[edchamberlain]

I agree with Debutante, i love all plugins like wave traveller and fruity scratcher, capable of so many cool fx.

[soma]

I was the one that said the GUI was cartoony.

I just meant that it looks like a stylized drawing of hardware. It's probably the one thing that keeps me from wanting to use FL. I don't know why, it's like when you meet a really cool girl but something about the way she looks or talks or presents herself just bothers you somewhere in your brain you and can't stand to be around her...

As a reference, my fav. GUI is Live.

[JMC]

....WASTIMG YOUR TIME!!!???? I think NOT!!! Those are awesome tools ...

I know : These remarks usually come from people that want to see 'other stuff' happening but we only have 2 hands here.

With over 60.000 people using FL officially (and God knows how many others) it's impossible to make everyone happy.

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)