Heh... I was kinda wondering the same thing! I guess you beat me to it...multree wrote:so what's your point againttoz wrote:Princeton, Wavearts, R66, Roomverb2, Wizooverb, now THESE are reverbs.
Wave Arts Masterverb - Anybody use it?
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- KVRAF
- 2327 posts since 13 Apr, 2004 from Vancouver, Canada
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- AcousticHippie
- 4769 posts since 12 Mar, 2003
ttoz wrote:OOPS!multree wrote:so what's your point againttoz wrote:Princeton, Wavearts, R66, Roomverb2, Wizooverb, now THESE are reverbs.
I mean acoustic arts!
good froydian slip however that's spelt!
it's freudian (from sigmund freud) and it's artsacoustic
I would miss you if you would go back to mac again
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- KVRian
- 769 posts since 2 Apr, 2005
Actually, I think you mean ArtsAcoustic. I would also add PSP Easyverb - a little surprise that one. Also Magnus Ambiance, and it's almost-identical twin that comes with Cubase SX3 is a killer reverb when tweaked right.
My method of testing a reverb is to mono the master track. If a reverb sounds evil in mono, it can't stay. Classic radio songs always sound excellent in mono, and just get better in stereo. It amazing how many reverbs sound very bad in mono ... I listen to the 100% wet sound, because it's easier to hear the defects. I use drums to weed out the grainy, clattery reverbs. On this basis, Ambiance kicks it with the best commercial stuff. A lot of people complain about some reverbs being metallic - that's usually adjustable. Understanding the high damping is a big part of getting smooth, dark sounds. I was thinking about buying R66, but I think Ambiance is better if you tweak it - certainly easier to tweak. Try the high damping at the minimum 10%, and the high damping frequency at around 2 - 5 kHz. This controls the sizzle very nicely and smooths it out.
If you are using Ambiance as a 100% wet send effect, you can try adding modulation to it by adding a chorus or vibrato or flanger - even a tremelo. Kjaerhus GMO-1 is great for this, because you can sync to tempo - try 4 whole notes, so it gently cycles over 2 bars. The Classic freebies that have sync can do this too. Adds a little life if you want it.
I also want to experiment with analysing the frequency spectrum of reverbs like the princton. I have to admit it has a pleasant sound, despite it's grainy nature. I think Ambiance could be eq'd to sound very similar (the Hold feature will be handy for this). It's certainly capable of smoother tails, and sounds good in mono too. AAR rocks too.
My method of testing a reverb is to mono the master track. If a reverb sounds evil in mono, it can't stay. Classic radio songs always sound excellent in mono, and just get better in stereo. It amazing how many reverbs sound very bad in mono ... I listen to the 100% wet sound, because it's easier to hear the defects. I use drums to weed out the grainy, clattery reverbs. On this basis, Ambiance kicks it with the best commercial stuff. A lot of people complain about some reverbs being metallic - that's usually adjustable. Understanding the high damping is a big part of getting smooth, dark sounds. I was thinking about buying R66, but I think Ambiance is better if you tweak it - certainly easier to tweak. Try the high damping at the minimum 10%, and the high damping frequency at around 2 - 5 kHz. This controls the sizzle very nicely and smooths it out.
If you are using Ambiance as a 100% wet send effect, you can try adding modulation to it by adding a chorus or vibrato or flanger - even a tremelo. Kjaerhus GMO-1 is great for this, because you can sync to tempo - try 4 whole notes, so it gently cycles over 2 bars. The Classic freebies that have sync can do this too. Adds a little life if you want it.
I also want to experiment with analysing the frequency spectrum of reverbs like the princton. I have to admit it has a pleasant sound, despite it's grainy nature. I think Ambiance could be eq'd to sound very similar (the Hold feature will be handy for this). It's certainly capable of smoother tails, and sounds good in mono too. AAR rocks too.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 189 posts since 14 May, 2005 from Jacksonville, Fl. USA
Thanks fellas for the feedback - I always get a kick out of your honesty.
Question - I've tried to read other posts here on this but since we are here -- what is the difference between Pristine Light and Sir? - Pristine is only $59 and I was thinking about getting it until I tried Sir - I don't notice the latency with Sir for I just apply the Reverbs after I record anyway and just listen. Is one actually better than the other or...as you said.... it is in the quality of implulses?
I've downloaded different impluses adn tried them in both and I guess my ears are just not trained yet - can't hear much difference.
Thanks
Question - I've tried to read other posts here on this but since we are here -- what is the difference between Pristine Light and Sir? - Pristine is only $59 and I was thinking about getting it until I tried Sir - I don't notice the latency with Sir for I just apply the Reverbs after I record anyway and just listen. Is one actually better than the other or...as you said.... it is in the quality of implulses?
I've downloaded different impluses adn tried them in both and I guess my ears are just not trained yet - can't hear much difference.
Thanks
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRian
- 769 posts since 2 Apr, 2005
I've come to the conclusion that SIR is as good as any convolution reverb, unless you want some of the extra features. Depending on the sample, sometimes I think I can hear a difference, and other times I can't. Sometimes I fancy I can hear a difference but prefer SIR, and maybe sometimes the other way around. Differnt level settings might be affect my judgement - but really, I don't think I care too much either way. What concerns me a little more is that with many impulses I can hear artifacts - like descending sine waves - in a lot of them. So I think the quality of impulse samples is a far bigger issue. This is why I am much more into algorithm reverbs again. AAR is fantasic, PSP Easyverb is better than most, R66 has me both stunned and baffled, so I don't think i'll be buying it - hopefully a sign of better things to come. But Maghus Ambiance would have to be one of the better reverbs around when tweaked to your liking.
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- KVRian
- 769 posts since 2 Apr, 2005
ttoz - you aren't judging Ambiance based on the presets are you? I abandoned it a while ago, and have just re-discovered it again, because i've learned so much more about programming reverb recently.
Try my mono 100% wet test and audition all your reverbs with headphones, and then try Ambiance again. Try with the density at 0, the room size at minumum, and with some extreme hi damping - i'm getting some sounds that I really like. The random variation button can really make subtle changes - I tend to like the lower values. Actually, the SX3 version allows you to enter numbers, with is very cool, and maybe it sounds a little better - hard to tell, because i'm sure it's just a new gui for the same Ambiance engine. Adding modulation with another plugin definately adds life, although I don't always like modulation.
Try my mono 100% wet test and audition all your reverbs with headphones, and then try Ambiance again. Try with the density at 0, the room size at minumum, and with some extreme hi damping - i'm getting some sounds that I really like. The random variation button can really make subtle changes - I tend to like the lower values. Actually, the SX3 version allows you to enter numbers, with is very cool, and maybe it sounds a little better - hard to tell, because i'm sure it's just a new gui for the same Ambiance engine. Adding modulation with another plugin definately adds life, although I don't always like modulation.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 189 posts since 14 May, 2005 from Jacksonville, Fl. USA
Thanks - nice info - where do you think the best impulses are?greendoor wrote:So I think the quality of impulse samples is a far bigger issue. This is why I am much more into algorithm reverbs again.
What is AAR?
Thanks
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
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- AcousticHippie
- 4769 posts since 12 Mar, 2003
well I kinda like the EMT impulses from - I guess echochamber.... but the best are honestly the HDIR impulses in true stereo format from MasterpinguinAVBunyan wrote:Thanks - nice info - where do you think the best impulses are?greendoor wrote:So I think the quality of impulse samples is a far bigger issue. This is why I am much more into algorithm reverbs again.
What is AAR?
Thanks
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- AcousticHippie
- 4769 posts since 12 Mar, 2003
ttoz wrote:i can't find them, i can find his "service to record your impulse"
have they got a library fr purchase?
no they only come with WizooVerb W2
but they sound really nice-
- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
My experience exactly. I felt that the sound of Ambience simply didn't justify the CPU overhead, and prefered the warmth of the Kjaerhus Classic Reverb for simple stuff.greendoor wrote:ttoz - you aren't judging Ambiance based on the presets are you? I abandoned it a while ago, and have just re-discovered it again, because i've learned so much more about programming reverb recently.
I recently had more of a go with Ambience and like you my skill/understanding has moved on a lot since before. Now I realise that if you move on from the presets and tweak stuff more you can get some really nice reverbs out of this!
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Does anyone have a link for the Princetown one mentioned?
I'm in the market for a higher quality reverb. The W2 looks a bit too expensive, but I've heard that Roomverb M2 is good?
I'm in the market for a higher quality reverb. The W2 looks a bit too expensive, but I've heard that Roomverb M2 is good?