sidechaining gated ducking kind of thing.

[blaster78]

I am using sonar 3 as my host.

i have two tracks of identical audio, one effected heavily and i would only like to allow the effected one to be heard when the first track is quiet(er)

is there any way i can do this automatically with an gate/compressor thing ? it doesn't have to be 100%, just close.

otherwise, it's a lot of microediting for me.

cheers,

steve.

[markroom]

k dis is ntabout a vst fx but if u have the dry track
and an fx track try dis -dis wont wrk unless der in time with each other and u may have to adjust levels

invert phase of one track and make a mixdown of the two in a mulltitrack this should leave u with just the fx part

[ezeeboogie]

Hello Steve!

Hope you're well mate!

I'm sure there's a plugin that does this but I can't remember what the hell it's called!

The only other way I can think of to do what you want is to use Fretted Synth Audio's Auto Midi CC.

Auto Midi CC can convert an audio signals level (amplitude) to midi Continuous
controller value (0-127) in real time. Designed to be used with WAHt
and Wah_ml as an auto wah. But can be used with any VST plugin that
supports automation. Can be used only in hosts that support midi
connections between VST plugins.

This will give you a stream of CC information based on the amplitude of the original file. The problem is the CCs will run from 0-127 and you need to invert this so that the sound will be muted when the control track is at full volume.

If you have EXT it's easy to invert the signal, I'm not sure about other hosts. So I just cobbled together an inverted volume envelope in Synthedit just for you! All this does is invert the CC range (127-0 instead of 0-127) and then uses that info to control the level of the signal.


Download HERE.

It has only two settings: Midi Channel and Controller number. Obviously set these to whatever channel and controller you are using. I've set it to "all channels" and "7-volume" as standard but you can set it to whatever!

Not sure how you will set this up in Sonar but what you will need to do is send the midi output of Auto Midi CC to my Inverted Volume plugin. If you can't do this directly, you should be able to record the output of Auto Midi CC and then use this to control my plugin.

If you need any more help let me know!

[blaster78]

mr boogie, many thanks mate.

i will try this out and may pm you for a bit more info if necessary.

many thanks,

steve.

[yakobb]

I know nothing about sonar, or if it can sidechain, but here is what you want to do. Put a compressor on the effected track, and then use a sidechain from the dry track to control it. Then you can just tweak compressor settings to finetune the effect.

Essentially, you just need to have a compressor on the effected track that is controlled by the dry track, so when dry track becomes quiet, the level of the FX track is brought up.

Edit: Yes, it's called ducking as you said.

[kritikon]

Voxengo Crunchessor, Kjaerhus GUP-1, OtiumFX Beatpuncher... these are 3 off the top of my head that have sidechains (there are more out there).
Likewise, I too know nothing about Sonar, so you need to find out if it actually allows you to sidechain (you need at least 4 inputs to a channel or group channel for it to be possible for stereo sidechaining).


Failing that... I know of at least 2 workarounds:

1) Split the tracks into dual mono and use DB Procomp on each side for ducking - DB Procomp is an old one (that might even be freeware by now) and it sends and receives to itself. Which means you can insert it into both channels, one to send, one to receive. (You don't need any fancy host for it to work either) and set the sending one to no compression, and the receiving one to ducking. It's mono only (which is why you need to split the channel). It's also a useful gate.

2) Bluecat Peak Meter. There's a freebie and a very cheap commercial version. It'll record the ouptut levels of any audio into automation data. You get a nice little picture readout of the volume of your audio - then apply that to another channel to control any channel parameter, or any other VST parameter that is automatable. To use it for ducking, you need to invert the peak readings and level out the top parts to whatever volume you want, and apply it to the channel you want ducked. It's not that fiddly once you get your head around it - and it's an extremely cheap and effective way of getting ducking without a ducking compressor. In fact it means you can apply ducking to anything (and not only in terms of volume - you can have ducked FX sends, ducked Eqs...anything.)

[iMAS]

Waves C1 compressor can do side-chaining. But that pluggin only comes with their bundles.

[ezeeboogie]

In fact it means you can apply ducking to anything (and not only in terms of volume - you can have ducked FX sends, ducked Eqs...anything.)

Can you duck ducks? Actually, can ducks duck? If they can, what would you shout at a duck to make it duck?

[iMAS]

Can you duck ducks? Actually, can ducks duck? If they can, what would you shout at a duck to make it duck?

I would shout "duck," of course.

[kritikon]

Just watch a bloody big hawk flying low over a duck, and you'll see that ducks can duck. Dunno what hawks shout to make them duck though

"Squawk"?

[PeterL]

Maybe this plugin can do what you want (freeware):
SSS SideChain-Gate/Expander
How to do sidechaining in CubaseSX, here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=72851

[PeterL]

How to do sidechaining in CubaseSX, here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=72851

Oh sorry, I see you use Sonar. Maybe there's a similar way to use the plugin

[PeterL]

If you want something commercial, I have also good experience with CompadreBeatpuncher in Shaper mode for sidechain-gating.
Compadre Beatpuncher