Black innovation?

[zck]

please keep going, zck, you're doing a wonderful job.

just replying in kind.

i think you're revising music history as you see fit. what will be next, black ppl inventing a door knob ?

[Cheeso]

WHat musical genre does "door knob" fall under?

[zck]

WHat musical genre does "door knob" fall under?

Same category as trance influenced by soul and rnb.

[pHz]

I get a vibe that there may be some posters who are using an alias in this thread, frankly that makes me a bit uneasy...

not as far as my tools let me see hink ...

slainte rob

[Lady J]

Lady J,

Out of interest, do you believe the races are genetically predisposed to prefering different types of music? Do you subsribe to these theories that black and hispanic people naturally have 'soul' in their genes?

Or like myself, do you feel it is more a cultural / developmental phenomena?

it's all about climate there's icy tower of a 'soul' that i love in scandinavian and north european music.

Some of the funkiest disco at the moment is coming out of those sides Anyone who makes fun of scandinavian music just doesnt know the current state of things.

Theirs a whole lot of funk going on up there.

[zck]

Lady J,

Out of interest, do you believe the races are genetically predisposed to prefering different types of music? Do you subsribe to these theories that black and hispanic people naturally have 'soul' in their genes?

Or like myself, do you feel it is more a cultural / developmental phenomena?

it's all about climate there's icy tower of a 'soul' that i love in scandinavian and north european music.

Some of the funkiest disco at the moment is coming out of those sides Anyone who makes fun of scandinavian music just doesnt know the current state of things.

Theirs a whole lot of funk going on up there.

and a whole slew of other things... really good quality vs low population ratio.

i was prising scandinavian music not making fun of it.

[stale bread]

it really pains me to see that this thread fell off, though it did hang in there for a while, some of you got what SK was saying and some didn't, and some got it but just got upset i'm bowing out of this one now but I'd like to say that i'm black and I haven't innovated anything... I hope that makes at least some of you happy

[zck]

it really pains me to see that this thread fell off, though it did hang in there for a while, some of you got what SK was saying and some didn't, and some got it but just got upset i'm bowing out of this one now but I'd like to say that i'm black and I haven't innovated anything... I hope that makes at least some of you happy

Now you make me feel bad about the door knob. What did fall off though ? The thread started with offensive and grossly exaggerated notion. The premise of the entire thread is racial boasting. That you'll get unwarranted replies is a given.

There are many high caliber excellent black musicians that don't need validating. It's kind a sad that some idiot finds pride in hiphop or tries to attach dubious black origins to all of modern music.

[rouge]

according to wikipedia the name "guitar" was given after the instrument was brought to Spain by the Moors...Africans. However, the origins go back much further (5000 years) to mesopotamia/Iran.

5000 years ago mesopotamia was inhabited by Blacks.

[rouge]

Teeboy wrote:

But no matter what, jazz and blues are firmly rooted in European music.

I write: give an example. Have your ever examined your typical twelve-bar blues progression? Nothing like it exists in European music. From a Euro-theoretic perspective, the twelve bar blues doesn't make "musical" sense, but it works. Bop musicians in the 40's borrowed liberally from people like Debussy, some of their chordal progressions, but it also went the other way. Consider Debussy's "Golliwog Rag."

Ciao!

I have studied blues music, yes. Well Im a guitarist - we all have!

I dont know vast amounts of the origins of blues, but it strikes me more as a kind of folk style than anything. The use of pentotonic and dorian would suggest this.

But when I say blues is based on European music, Im talking at a far more fundamental level. The use of 3rd intervals to create triads, the dominant 7th etc, are all Western. At least they didnt originate in Africa to my knowledge.

I stand by the quoted statement. Blues and Jazz are derivatives of Western music. Just as Metalica is a derivative of the Beetles (yet I dont remember John using an ESP ).

The 12 string harp originated in Africa (ancient Kamit
or Egypt as the Greeks call it). And many "western" instruments are based on this-Harpsichord,Piano etc.

[rouge]

Errr, no.

I was never away that the MTV awards was a celebration of white music? Awards shows like the MOBO's are quite a different matter - Music Of Black Origin Awards.

I find this offensive. It wasnt 'black people' who pioneered these styles, it was certain talented black artists. The music itself (in terms of its anatomy) is certainly of Western origin.

As Iv said many times in this thread - Credit where credit is due! You cant really say that music featuring diatonic scales, 3rd based chords etc, and is produced with computers, samplers etc is of 'black origin'.

You want a show celebtrating urban youth culture? Great, go for it. Just dont try to tell me this pop music belongs to a certain race, cuz thats twoddle.

Junior, you just don't seem to be getting the point which is surprising conidering it right there on the top of your head. Whether you want to face it or not many of the most popular pop styles since the 19th century have been developed/invented by people of African descent. To say 'Just a few talented ones' denies both the pattern that exists and the whole socio-historical context. Art is never created in a vaccuum.

But I think I can help. I have a talent for expanding a narrow mind. Repeat after me:

Ragtime, the blues, gospel, jazz, rhythm n blues, rock n roll, samba, calypso, ska, , salsa, reggae, soul, funk, techno, hip hop were all created by people of African descent.

Now repeat ten more times to yourself, absorb it, assimilate it and then we can end this thread.

Very,very well said. Thank you I couldnt have said it
better. The most accurate post I've read thus far.
People please study what this man has said, and don't
let your mind be clouded by emotion.

[rouge]

"Electronica and dance music trace their roots back to soul and rhythm and blues, aka, "black music.""

no they dont - they trace their roots to kraftwerk - who are clearly in the european classical tradition - no funky beats to be seen anywhere

hmmm .... time for you to have another listen to the rhythms on the "Computerworld" album

WORD

[RapRogue]

Some of the funkiest disco at the moment is coming out of those sides Anyone who makes fun of scandinavian music just doesnt know the current state of things.

Theirs a whole lot of funk going on up there.

No, there is not, if anything funk and 'groove'
is the one thing not going on there. Pop on the
other hand is a great export and to some extent
rock and metal.

[RapRogue]

WORD

The Rogue fan club only accept large breasted blond
female groupies atm. Se any porn sites for further
reference.

[RapRogue]

bloody hell ... we agree (i think) ... there ARE things worth arguing about ... there ARE things not worth arguing about ... shame its all subjective though ...

... i trust you understand though that i WASNT arguing about the subject of this thread ... more debating the NATURE of the argument itself ...

(and that IS sometimes worth discussion IMHO ... particularly in sensitive / contentious contexts like this one)

slainte rob

I agree to some extent, and I think you know why and
to what I objected. And no problem discussion is
always welcome, closing it without one is not.