KVR Audio

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:15 am

ttoz wrote:Look, masterverb was a breakthrough YEARS ago when pc's were slow and you could run say 5 masterverbs on a single p3500! WOW! I can run about 200 on my amd now LOL.

Once they go to the 64 bit Windows and with dual next generation 4 GHz+ processors, you can actually run 6,000 simultaneous instances of MasterVerb, which has the advantage of creating a sound so grainy tht it actually can be used in place of most furniture refinishing products, which work well but have greater latency.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:20 am

[DELETED]

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:23 am

greendoor wrote:It's Princeton, and its an Eventide product - probably www.eventide.com It has a 'nice' unobtrusive quality that I could see appealing to mastering engineers.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:11 am

kylen wrote:
headquest wrote:Does anyone have a link for the Princetown one mentioned?
http://store.princetondigital.biz/yhst- ... oroom.html

There's lots of comments about that one at KVR here...

Thanks

Spyro · Post by **Spyro** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:06 pm

I use Masterverb a lot from quite some time, I think it is good for 90% of the cases but I was recently working on an orchestral project and found it too metallic, so I used convoboy instead.

I still recommend Masteverb a lot, it's very friendly on the CPU and it sounds less metallic than other non convolution verbs IMO...and to make it even less metallic you can use an eQ after it and roll off the high freqs.

Alien Leg · Post by **Alien Leg** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:42 pm

Is there actually a better reverb in that CPU-load category than masterverb?

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:24 pm

Most reverbs are better than masterverb - pay attention.

Kilroy seemed surprised at my comment about the Princeton appealing to mastering engineers. I say this because apparantly Massenburg raves about the hardware one, but I can't appreciate it at. A mastering engineer is apply a reverb over a complex mix, and in that context it may be useful. I'm looking for a reverb that can be applied to specific tracks to make them sound wonderful. I can't get any sounds I like out of the Princeton demo - which is why I consider it only as a bit of a wash over a whole mix.

I would like to throw in another way to test reverbs:

Close you eyes and try to imagine the space that the sound is in. I think the most exciting reverbs give you a real illusion of a real space. I think Glaceverb (if you remove all the modulation gimmicks) gives you a really nice illusion of a real space. It's limited, but I think it's a great benchmark of a good reverb sound, and it's free so everyone can have this and use if for comparison.

I remember years ago doing a mix with a Roland SE-70 reverb. Somebody listening asked what all the hissy white noise stuff was. First I thought - can't you tell it's reverb? Then, I realised that yes - actually the reverb sounds nothing like a real reverb. A lot of VST reverbs have the same effect to me - they make a noise, but does it really sound like reverb?

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:37 pm

greendoor wrote: I remember years ago doing a mix with a Roland SE-70 reverb. Somebody listening asked what all the hissy white noise stuff was. First I thought - can't you tell it's reverb? Then, I realised that yes - actually the reverb sounds nothing like a real reverb.

Haha - that's funny - I know what you're saying.

rpmartino · Post by **rpmartino** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:38 am

Rob, from the maker of GrainyVerb (or is it MasterVerb) here...

Not sure what to add here other than

1) MasterVerb is still a popular product for us and a lot of people love it's sound
2) it's based on some pretty influential DSP research (just Google "William Gardner reverb", Bill has got some serious DSP cred)
3) just wait until later this year....

kylen wrote:
greendoor wrote: I remember years ago doing a mix with a Roland SE-70 reverb. Somebody listening asked what all the hissy white noise stuff was. First I thought - can't you tell it's reverb? Then, I realised that yes - actually the reverb sounds nothing like a real reverb.
Haha - that's funny - I know what you're saying.

Speaking as a Chapman Stick player, I'm a HUGE fan of the Boss SE-70s. They can be noisy, but I've yet to come across a hardware or software effects solution that can give me as satisfying a sound for my instrument, and is flexible enough to do the multitude things I need (slow gear, analog distortion, grungy rotary speaker, wild effects all in a row). I use two SE-70s in conjuction with a Boss GX-700 and am impressed with the sounds I'm able to get, and they are all inexpensive (under $200) units. My personal website has some rough Stick recordings:

http://robmartino.com

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:54 am

My SE-70's are long gone now, but yeah - I loved them enough at the time to have two. Maybe that's why it hurt so much when my client couldn't tell it was meant to be a reverb

From memory the Ambiance setting was stunningly realistic. Playing late at night, i'd have to slip my head phones off to make sure that I really wasn't filling the room and waking the flatmates ... The noise was bad - as was most 16bit hardware of that time. Generally, I find VST plugins are far superior for recording - but I think an SE70 might be ok for live.

I'm not trying to bag WaveArts, but really - Masterverb can't really compete with most of the freebie VST's. Have you downloaded GlaceVerb or Magnus Ambiance or even Freeverb2? Ultimately - reverbs are all different, and they probably all have their uses. But the standard of reverb has been raised very high, especially with ArtsAcoustic and R66 - not to mention the convolution reverbs.

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:50 am

I don't know anything about the Masterverb or SE-70, I was saying that I know about grainy 12 bit 80's rack verbs - I have a Peavey and a Korg that you can pick the corn out of your teeth after hearin those! They're effects only for sure

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:56 pm

greendoor, which VST verb do you like, if any?

mandolarian · Post by **mandolarian** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:40 pm

Greendoor will prolly say it's all ArtsAcoustic.

But the reality is, he uses a spring unit from an old Silvertone amp that he paid $2000 for on eBay.

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:24 am

I'm like everyone else here - I have a need for good reverb, and it's been frustrating to get something that compares with the good hardware units. I've owned many hardware verbs, and I have many VST reverbs. There isn't a single solution, but I would say that if you had to mix and album with only one VST reverb, ArtsAcoustic would get the job done. I'm a fan, but I don't think it's the ultimate answer for everything.

There are some great freeware reverbs, and I could mix an album using nothing but freeware reverbs. SIR is as good as any other convolution reverb - I don't consider latency to be a problem when mixing. Glaceverb sounds great, but it's not useable for everything. Magnus Ambiance can be tweaked to make some very nice sounds - I don't care for the presets.

I think PSP Easyverb has some nice sounds. I think R66 is capable of extremely nice sounds, but I find the interface to be bloody frustrating.

Silverspike R2 is very nice for early reflections, but I don't really like the tails.

I have many others, and many other demos, but I don't rate them high enough to mention. I wish there was something better that could blow me away - hopefully somebodies working on something better. I don't have the patience for convolution impulses anymore - I want high quality algorithmns I can tweak. So far AAR is the leader.

JeffSanders · Post by **JeffSanders** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:25 pm

Have you tried Wizooverb M2, Greendoor?

The ArtsAcoustic verb sounds great, but the Wizoo adds serious depth and dimension to sounds. You can put just a touch on several instruments without muddying up a mix. 3D sounding and lush.

To me, ArtsAcoustic is a not-so-distant second. With no other non-convo software verbs worth mentioning besides the UAD and Poco plugs. imho.

Wave Arts Masterverb - Anybody use it?