Aging and music

[Hink]

Okay bear with me a bit here. Andriodlove's thread got me thinking....then the Red Sox really got me going..there all a bunch of over payed little girls whining...it's been a sad display of sportsmanship. Then the J-lo thread.

So it occurs to me that music, hollywood, sports and such have become just so superficial and glitteraty that it's reached a point of absurdity. Where is the reality? Those people aren't real, they live "above" us (not how I feel), looking down making millions off of our gullibility.

How can I relate to Mick Jagger? I can relate to the guitar player in that band that plays down the street once a week though. But face it, many parts of today's music scene (all genres) has become quite phony and bogus. It isn't about talent, it's about business. True there are many performers maintaining a small scale identity and I admire them.

Now in situations where companies grow stale, or sports teems grow old, they say we need some youth, some fresh talent. However I wonder if music couldn't stand for the exact opposite.

We have had myriad of age polls as of recently and some interesting facts came to light. Like how many people are over 40, and we're still at it. There's a lot to be said for that alone. But also look at those of us who are at this stage in our lives. We're not full of pipe dreams, we're not overly conceited. In fact I think many of the kvrer's in my age group are pretty much genuine. I know I consider myself so, I've got nothing to prove or hide. I don't need to boast, I don't need to embellish...I try to keep it real.

I think in the case of today's music scene that there could be a very good market for us who are in our prime of our adulthood (purely subjective, but I believe accurate). See it's simple, I'm real, I've been real all my life. I haven't been living the life others expect of me. I haven't been plastic and in the spotlite all my life..I've just been me.

Now I am not trying to make this about me, I see this with many, many members here. But I can say with confidence that you might put Hink in an unreal position, but I don't thing you can take the "realness" out of Hink...no matter how hard you try. I truly am a creature of habit, I've been a real guy all my life, down to earth...I just know no other way . I can say with confidence that there are many people here just like me and even better examples of what I am saying here.

So what do you think, do you think popular music could use a boost in the arm from "real folk"? Not has beens doing a re-union tour. But real people, who have raised families, who have held their dreams, done their share to make the world a better place (albeit slightly in many cases).

I think music needs a shot of humility and back to roots some. I think that it's turning into too much of a techno colored fantasy life for far too many...and sadly many of those meet tragedy. How much longer can we fantasize instead of relating? I don't know about you but I've lived on mac and cheese, lost my lights, went without a phone...more people can relate to that, then owning mansions, leerjets, designer clothes, 200k cars ect...

It occurs too me I just described myself as a typical bluesman and maybe I answered my own question...yes they're bluesmen...but maybe not...I'd like to see how other's feel...young and old...let's just keep it nice okay...

[androidlove]

I think that it's turning into too much of a techno colored fantasy life for far too many...and sadly many of those meet tragedy. How much longer can we fantasize instead of relating? I don't know about you but I've lived on mac and cheese, lost my lights, went without a phone...more people can relate to that, then owning mansions, leerjets, designer clothes, 200k cars ect...

nice lyrics. where's the song?

[Hink]

hmmmm ....

[VitaminD]

...So it occurs to me that music, hollywood, sports and such have become just so superficial and glitteraty that it's reached a point of absurdity. Where is the reality? Those people aren't real, they live "above" us (not how I feel), looking down making millions off of our gullibility.

Hello.. I think this happened at least 20 years ago if not longer..

If you think they live above us.. then its your mentality that is at fault.. you're placing the most value in material items and money. and if you do that, then you lose.

theres so much more to it imo.. i mean even with music.. if one is making millions on their music, has their mug plastered all over the place, etc.. yet isnt happy with their music - well whats the point?

its not really aging that this is directed at because there are plenty of oldies milking the financial gravy train for all they can, just as their are newbies to the arena trying to get on board..

its a mentality that is what you're seeing and I dont believe it has an age boundary..

[flugel45]

Hink,

I can relate. I too am in my forties and know for a fact that most of my friends around my age rarely buy CDs by the current music "sensations".

Assuming that's true of most (or, at least, many) of us baby-boomers, there is a tremendous market share that is currently going untapped. So yeah, I'd say if you've got the goods talent-wise, you could make and market your own CD (assuming you're not trying to sound like limp bizkit) and do all right.

Of course, it's not that simple, but my point is, I think we're at the vanguard of indie-recorded music by over-thirty-somethings becoming very successful through the internet.

I have to believe that... because it's the only shot I've got.

JD

[Pantsdown666]

I'd have to say that the over 40s set is perhaps a bit disparate to be considered a single market force? Yes, we're perhaps less prone to marketing BY ITSELF, but from there things diverge.
I'm 43. My tastes tend toward contemporary stuff such as funky hiphop (People Under the Stairs, Madlib, Diverse etc) and some electronica (where it's still got a bit of funk I guess (Prefuse 73 etc). But I find that most people's tastes tend to freeze at some point in their 30s - most people I know my age don;t seem to go too far beyond the early 90s, and a lot seem thrilled at the current 80s revival in sonic textures and production - you know, overly excited by things like electroclash because it's so 1982 identikit - whereas I want something new.
So perhaps the golden olides tours are the best use of that "market" ?

[aldred]

There's no doubt Hink, the world is going down the toilet in many ways and has been on its happy way for some time now - especially music-wise. Everything's dynamic and slick and polished, but there's very little soul. There *are* plenty people who do tune in to what good stuff there is from the present and the past. Trouble is that the youth determine the market and where the money is, so that's what gets made and played. May change in the future and us old biddies might get a say, who knows. For now, we have our stars and they're not going anywhere.

There was an interesting thread I saw a while back asking 'why do people make music in certain old styles?'. That one really got my back up, I can tell you. God knows what the merit is in being modern, eh. And what the hell is it you're making now, I thought. B*gger all to do with what would come out naturally.

Oh yes, I'm pushing 40 also. I blame the youth. Or rather, there's no quick way to mature for most so the glitter is always new and fun for them. Was fun for me too.

People who make a serious effort to learn an instrument seem to end up with their heads screwed on properly. More instruments learned and more live music would be nice.

mark

[respirator]

Well, I'm nearer 30 than forty (just), but I understand some of what you're saying.

But I don't think the sorry state of commercial music - and it is very sorry indeed - is telling anything about the state of music. The old market model for the music business is dying. We're seeing (and hearing) the last gasps of the industry as we know it. Music is growing and glowing outside the hit lists and commercial outlets (MTV etc.). I think we need to come to terms with the fact that music of high quality that everyone one likes (and buys) - Beatles, to use the most obvious example - is a ghost of yesterday. Music in today’s world exists everywhere - KvR is a prime example. Some of the music cafe stuff outshines a lot of commercial music, IMO.

The music biz was based on a near monopoly of distribution (both physical and via mass media) and production (expensive studios). That monopoly is definitely gone. So we hopefully get a music scene where there is almost as many artists as listeners. And we hopefully get a music scene where live music is the important outlet - preferably in small venues (stadium concerts and the like - as I see them - are a by-product of the dying music industry).

Music was originally a social activity, then it slowly became commoditized, and know in the wake of the tech revolution, perhaps, hopefully it can become a social activity again. The social spheres of today are just larger and without physical limitations (the internet). And multi-million dollar music industry and mega stars and the infuriating musical standards will be a thing of the past.

End of rant (please excuse my English).

Thomas

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[birrbits]

I think that it's turning into too much of a techno colored fantasy life for far too many...and sadly many of those meet tragedy. How much longer can we fantasize instead of relating? I don't know about you but I've lived on mac and cheese, lost my lights, went without a phone...more people can relate to that, then owning mansions, leerjets, designer clothes, 200k cars ect...

nice lyrics. where's the song?

The Sound of Muzak - Porcupine Tree

Hear the sound of music Drifting in the aisles Elevator prozac Stretching on for miles

The music of the future Will not entertain It's only meant to repress And neutralise your brain

Soul gets squeezed out Edges get blunt Demographic Gives what you want

Now the sound of music Comes in silver pills Engineered to suit you Building cheaper thrills

The music of rebellion Makes you wanna rage But it's made by millionaires Who are nearly twice your age

One of the wonders of the world is going down It's going down I know It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares No-one cares enough

[aldred]

Trouble is that the youth determine the market and where the money is, so that's what gets made and played. May change in the future and us old biddies might get a say, who knows.
mark

Really? I am the youth. And old folk getting a say? Watch it matey, or you won't be getting a pension

No, please, don't hit me again, please. Here .... here's my wallet.

mark

[the_nihilist]

I'm young, just turned legal drinking age everywhere not long ago...

And well... I can't speak for my peer group, and I won't apologize for percieved tastes of the masses or whatever it is you're complaining about.

I am firmly of the belief that if you want to hear good music, you have to go looking for it. You have to make an effort to find it, to learn about it, and to listen and understand it. Finding great music takes an awareness and cultivation of musical taste that most people never develop.

Yes, that's right; Music might not just be a priority for alot of people, even when they have money they're willing to spend on it. Some people just want something to listen to that sounds good... and for most of them, that's whatever is on the radio. They're not stupid people (we'll, as in any demographic, some of them probably are, but that's getting off topic), they would just rather spend their time and attention on other things. Let's be realistic, when you think about it, you spend a hell of alot of attention and time on this music thing.

As for music getting worse... When I listen to the "classic" rock stations here at work, the stuff on it sounds just as bad, trite and pointless as the modern music station's stuff... Mainstream music will always be boring to those of us with a developed musical sense.

And you self-proclaimed "old people" would do well to stop complaining about how modern music sucks and needs to fit your personal tastes. There's always awesome music out there, and it's always being made. Listen to something you've never heard about! Take a chance on a genre you haven't tried before! There's so much damn awesome music out there that you haven't heard, why are you content to live without even trying to understand it?

Oh, and LISTEN TO SHPONGLE DAMMIT!

Seriously, the new Shpongle album is mind-blowing...

[Meffy]

Put me down on the side of those saying that it's not a problem of age but of conformity and lack of imagination / innovation.

Some of the music that I find most interesting is coming from groups that were around when I was in my teens. (For those keeping score, that was during the presidency of John Quincy Adams.) Or even earlier.

And much of the most conformist, hidebound garbage coming out today is being perpetrated by young musicians who, if they ever had any originality to start with, discarded it in order to secure contracts.

IOW, don't look to this or that age group to provide relief from the situation. Look to those whose artistic vision hasn't been co-opted by profit-driven corporations that couldn't care less about art.

[wrench45us]

i think this is exactly why Bob Dylan is constantly touring and playing some very small venues

somebody like Dave Alvin may not be to everyone's taste, but he strikes me as genuine player who continues to put his music out in a genuine fashion. There are quite a few actually in genre like alt country or urban folk -- don't pull the audience numbers, but it's also a genre where those values are valued. And it's possible and likely that an artist will continue to work into their 40's

It seems a matter of scale, once it's possible for big numbers to make big money for the support team, something happens.