KVR Audio

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:35 pm

And, in case people would like to know how to use it in SX (not sure whether this has been covered allready), it's pretty much straight forward:
- Load CS as a VSTi (no need to select it for a track, it won't even show up there)
- Load any other VSTi, select it for a track.
- Set the VSTi tracks MIDI input to chordspace.
- Open the CS GUI and click around with your mouse.
- Record the results of those clicks.

haydxn · Post by **haydxn** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:46 pm

you can use logic sascha if you use a loopback driver. you can use any host you like by doing that.

okay surely that's the last time!

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:54 pm

haydxn wrote:you can use logic sascha if you use a loopback driver. you can use any host you like by doing that.

okay surely that's the last time!

Not that I plan on using a loopback device (would mess up things), but how would I route the MIDI output of CS? Virtual instrument objects don't have any MIDI out option in Logic, so you wouldn't even get close to the loopback devices input.

Or do you mean like running it in eXT and then defining a MIDI out there? Hmmm, yeah that should work it seems...

Hm, maybe I should install a loopback device and just disable anything I don't want for Logic (for the Logic users, that's done in Win.ini by setting the port to =0 in the [Logic] section).

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:56 pm

haydxn quoth you can use logic sascha if you use a loopback driver. you can use any host you like by doing that.

Nope. Sonar is refusing to.

haydxn · Post by **haydxn** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:02 pm

even if you're getting chordspace to put its midi out in eXT standalone?

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:10 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:This thing won't work in Logic as you won't be able to record its output (regardless whether you're using eXT to enhance Logic), which ATM is mandatory as CS has no MIDI in.
If the pads were MIDI triggerable, things might look different, but if you ask me, assigning a plethora of pads to MIDI keys would somewhat spoil the easy going character of CS.

The only thing I could imagine would be having different triggers for different tonalities (these should be optional, shouldn't you need multiple tonalities) and the main triggeres to take you to all the possible chords inside one tonality, with some additional modifiers to alter the chord type.
That'd make up for 32 chord keys along with 3 modifiers per tonality. Probably worth the effort, if the keys were assigned in a logical manner.

Oh, and I could of course imagine that MIDI input would bring up different chord inversions.

Btw, nuffink, no idea whether you got my mails, so here's my main two wishes:
- 11 as an option doesn't make much sense for any chord with a major third. Let's have sus4 chords instead, with the 4th replacing the 3rd.
- Please add a new class of triad chords (with some options. Very often, for non-jazzy material, you don't want 7th chords. There could be triad chords, probably along with options for sus2 (second replacing the third), add 6, add 9 and sus4.

With that almost all styles could be covered.

Hi Sascha,

Good points. Hopefully the full version will address some of your usage requests, for a start I'm planning some action with right clicking and mouse modifiers.

As for your specific requests...

I rejected the triad class due to space contstraints. Whilst not ideal, muting the 7th will "triad" the lot.

I had thought of a button to suspend every 3rd (or rather swap the 3rd with the 2nd or 4th whilst adjusting the tension accordingly. All chords suspended at the flick of a button, that'll sound radical).

The 11ths only occur on dominants where the dissonance is partly hidden by the tritone, and on the tonic where I'd be hard pressed to use anything but the Ionian. I did have a version where the "avoid" notes where coloured red, but I thought that would be imposing on the user. I kind of like the dissonance, they might too.
The ideal solution would be user selectable scales/modes. That's another idea I had to abandon due to technical limitations.

Beardedone · Post by **Beardedone** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:12 pm

I had thought of a button to suspend every 3rd (or rather swap the 3rd with the 2nd or 4th whilst adjusting the tension accordingly. All chords suspended at the flick of a button, that'll sound radical).

Right on!

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:30 pm

right ... i SUSPECT now that live doesnt like (or doesnt recognise) MIDI output from plugins built with synthedit since i cant get any of ruriks MIDI wizardry VSTi to do anything without being eXT wrapped either ...

... wonder what it could be about the way they spit MIDI out ableton doesnt like ??? any ideas anyone ???

slainte

rob

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:36 pm

addendum ... non-synthedit VSTi that produce MIDI (stepchild / ERA) are working fine unwrapped ...

slainte

rob

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:49 pm

haydxn quoth even if you're getting chordspace to put its midi out in eXT standalone?

The problem I was getting was soundcard driver collisions. For some reason yesterday I couldn't get eXT to use no soundcard output at all. Today Ive finally been able to get it working.

However, the real culprit would apear to be that Sonar will not respond 'live' to the input from the loopback port; it must actually be recording for some reason. No idea why that is, its not the case with any MIDI controller Ive got.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:11 pm

And finally, a means of getting it working whilst eXT is wrapped inside Sonar; one that actually will trigger a synth 'live' without needing to be recording. But its a tad more complex.

You need a loopback device and TobyBear's MidiBag plugins. You need to be running his Net2MID application on your system, set to receive on 127.0.0.1 (port 5555) and sending to your loopback port.
You then need to insert eXT into Sonar, open it up, and insert a copy of Chordspace, routed to Toby's VST2NET plugin, which should be set up to send to 127.0.0.1 (port 5555).

So the final route for the MIDI goes

Chordspace in eXT in Sonar -> VST2NET inside eXT in Sonar ->(magic TCP stuff) -> Net2MIDI application -> loopback MIDI device -> Sonar

I'll get some screengrabs up after Ive has something to eat.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:00 pm

Here ya go...

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:52 pm

Have any of you played with the channel settings yet. Because hooking this thing up to a bunch of vsti's each on a different channel is fun. Instant arranging.

I'm thinking of teaching it counterpoint.

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:53 pm

give us chance ... some of us have only just got the thing working !!!

slainte

rob

experimental.crow · Post by **experimental.crow** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:54 pm

nuffink wrote:Have any of you played with the channel settings yet. Because hooking this thing up to a bunch of vsti's each on a different channel is fun. Instant arranging.

I'm thinking of teaching it counterpoint.

just started messing w/ that ...

ChordSpace. Something from nuffink.