KVR Audio

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:50 am

... do you really mean MIDI editing or is it just shorthand for editing all the stuff in the Piano Roll. Just curious because MIDI is such an ancient standard, which ORION certainly doesn't conform to internally, that I will be surprised if any other host actually does.

peejunk · Post by **peejunk** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:08 am

Big sequencers do conform to MIDI. You have a list editor in Cubase which enables you to edit MIDI message sequence that equals your controler or piano roll data.

edit: in other words, piano roll and graphical controller data editors are only abstraction over MIDI messages. VST automation isn't afaik.

And then VST(i) actually get MIDI data from sequencers, do they not?

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:11 am

So if its not in the MIDI spec, you can't do it? Seems unlikely.

peejunk · Post by **peejunk** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:33 am

Well with NRPN's, SysEx and whatnot, the MIDI isn't THAT limited. There is space for instrument specific commands and controls, isn't there?

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:36 am

MIDI is an ancient standard for sure.
But IMO this doesn't apply for editing, at which MIDI is still pretty much sufficient.
It does however apply to things such as automation of certain things, say, quick filter sweeps. With a resolution of 127 steps only, a highly resonating sweep would simply sound ugly. That's why there's dedicated automation data in each up to date host. Alternatively (for this particular example) filters need to be smoothed.

Others than that, how would Orion not conform to it, in, say, its piano roll?

haydxn · Post by **haydxn** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:27 am

what's your point bOnes?

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:36 am

DELETED

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:44 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:MIDI is an ancient standard for sure.
But IMO this doesn't apply for editing, at which MIDI is still pretty much sufficient.
It does however apply to things such as automation of certain things, say, quick filter sweeps. With a resolution of 127 steps only, a highly resonating sweep would simply sound ugly. That's why there's dedicated automation data in each up to date host. Alternatively (for this particular example) filters need to be smoothed.

Others than that, how would Orion not conform to it, in, say, its piano roll?

You nailed it, Sascha. ORION makes it reasonably clear that it works in its own way internally, with options for VST automation and MIDI where applicable, so it would never occur to me to refer to the data I was using in it as MIDI data. Seeing that the vast majority of posts about other hosts talk about MIDI automation, where I would just call it automation unless I was being specific, made me wonder if all the data being referred to was only 7-bit.
That said, ORION doesn't use MIDI cc's to identify anything, in the PR you always see a parameter name, even though dev's often don't label things in a helpful way.

peejunk · Post by **peejunk** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:03 am

Again, please read more about MIDI before you start bashing it. NRPN controller values can have 14bit resolution which is probably more than enough for most uses. It doesn't all end with CCs.

Then again, when people talk about MIDI automation, they probably do talk about 7bit CC automation (as oposed to VST automation which has a bigger resolution).

Some host probably do work with data based on totaly different concept internaly, and then transform it to MIDI as needed.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:42 am

Who's bashing anything f u c k-face!?! I was asking a question. Although I must admit that NRPN seems like a dodgy workaround. Surely a replacement standard would be easier/better in the long run?

rushwanabee · Post by **rushwanabee** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:18 am

Bones said,

Who's bashing anything f u c k-face!?!

This why I frequent KVR, for a good laugh! Bones, I guess you never went to finishing school did you

neverwhere2012 · Post by **neverwhere2012** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:33 am

when i get the motivation to make an environment for one of my hardware synths in logic i'll actually look at CC info... course, it's mainly looking for the right set of numbers in the monitor then copy/paste into the right spot, but i suppose it's more "advanced" than using the piano roll

When You Say "MIDI Editing"...