PODxt Live vs. Vox Tonelab SE

[Genetic_Junk]

Last time I was there, tuesday of this week, they had about six in stock. I just didn't think they would sell so fast, but since the priced just dropped $100 for them, it does make sense.

[Hink]

price drop

[kab]

I have the POD xt pro, running through a tube preamp...

Its quite good, but still doesnt hold a candle to the genuine article.

[Genetic_Junk]

Yep priced just dropped 100 bucks for the Tonelab.

@kab:I wouldn't know how good the genuine articles are. I used to have a Marshall half stack but I kept breaking glass so it had to go back. I live out in the country so I am lucky enough (or maybe not for my ears) to be able to play as loud as I want.

I think I am going to spend 200 bucks on something else cool save up for a couple months and go for the tonelab again.

[respirator]

Respirator what mag was the review for, I’d like to read it.

Sorry, missed that. It was for Danish musicians mag Line Out (in Danish - can email you a copy if you want).

[Hink]

I have the POD xt pro, running through a tube preamp...

Its quite good, but still doesnt hold a candle to the genuine article.

I only have 2.0 but I disagree that it doesn't hold a candle to the real thing...I have quite a nice rig with the heart being a Marshall stereo all tube pre. For like 15 years I had a plexi 100watt super lead head (modified with a high gain circuit and master volume, use to call that the cali hotrod) on a 4x12, I traded for a Mesa Boogie SOB (son of the original boogie)which was awesome.

To say it doesn't hold a candle to that would be hype against modeling imo. When you live in an apartment or have neighbors and dont have the money to sound proof a room your choices change. For many years I used a Sansamp GT2, which not only is a small pedal but can more then hold a candle to a stack. In fact in retail I use to do a blind test with customers . More times then not they thought the sansamp was the tube amp.

While I agree that the POD or other modelers may not sound just like a tube amp it can also be said that a tube amp can't hold a candle to the modelers. I laugh now because "nostalgia" changes people. There was a long period (during the jcm800 years in fact) that Marshalls rep went down because it was a one sound amp, I often was criticized for my dinosaur and today many have changed their minds, even though they once put Marshall down.

I wouldn't buy an old tube head again. Maybe if I was playing live, but doubtful there too..I'd probably buy a Tech21 PSA1 Pre...or if a head/cab combo was what I was after I'd buy a Tech21 Trademark.

Why? The one thing that seems to be forgotten is that one thing besides a tube overdrive marshalls, boogies, of twins and such were good at was hiss...the hiss level onstage was maddening and the gates didn't work good with my style of playing.

So I'm sorry if you disagree but old amps were one sound amps and dynamically lacking, The tone controls on a plexi were barely useful. Today the modelers are so versatile you just can't compare the two. FWIW I swore in 1987 that science would never develop an amp that wasn't tube that I would like.

With the POD I can use a "standard" Hink tone to write songs. Then once I've got the song mapped out I can directly create a unique tone for that song to complement the rest of the song and best of all I can change and store the settings on my pc. I couldn't do that with my Marshall, my boogie was better but not perfect. My current rackmount rig for live is amazing though and it is tube. But still doesn't offer the choices and options I have now for recording.

However tubes are like the dead, we forget the crap and remember the good...for recording no amp ever comes close to modeling (except of course for modeling amps). Tube amps were one sound, mono, then had no fx loops (anything after jcm800 did) and noisey. Sometimes you might get lucky and get the same quality of that tone out of them twice in a row, but even the best of the best were subject to voltage drops (a 100 watt tube amp draws a tremendous amount of power). If I played a club with poor wiring or too much on the circuits, which again back in the day was common, I lost my high-end. For recording there is no comparison, no mic=no unwanted noises being recorded...I wont even go into fx...

[Genetic_Junk]

Wow Hink you just made my $400 investment seem like a really good one.

So do you have a tonelad SE as well as a POD?

[Mr. Tunes]

i know this is not in the same league but i noticed the new Zoom G2 announcement. i bought the original 505 when it first came out and it was a smoking deal at the time(POD was just a twinkle in Line6's eye i think). i'm sure this new one will offer good sounds for the money

[Hink]

No I dont have tonelab just the pod and GT2 (sanasamp) ...you know what is really ironic about the whole amp and sound thing? One of the things about tube amps is they are simple.(and you often see this reflected by the artist) The early Sovteks and Red Bear amps gave testament to this. There's no "magic" in the "real" tube sound people are after. Any second year electronic student could probably build one. I'm not an eletronic engineer by any means (my father is) but I'm fairly good with a soldering iron and always have been. My buddy and me added a master volume and gain boost circuitry to my old plexi (a super lead 100 without a master volume is one sound and one volume...cranked). So it stands to reason that most guitarists like myself and others that are use to tube set ups prefer it simple Now true modern days has seen reverbs and fx loops on these amps, but sorry a real Marshall imo doesn't have reverb...truly the vintage amp sounds many strive for are reverbless amps, excluding of course combos like the twin...but still even the twin reverb was a simple amp. FWIW an old space chorus through a plexi sounded like Niagra Falls when cranked up

So why is it now that we want something real complicated to get a simple sound? I mean I have seen debates in the past over POD, Guitar Port, POD XT, V-amp, now Tonelab...I don't get it, what's to question there's only one clear choice, there is only one that is the best...the one with the sound(s) you want in it. True having a lot of tones is great, the features like being able to control my pod from the PC, save those settings, even have access to some features not apparent on the face are awesome. I never touch the POD everything is done from the pc.

But I just find it funny that we will argue to the death (guitarists) the need for tube amps and then emulate those amps with the most technological devices and software. So I guess when it comes to our amps we want them real simple, when it comes to amp simulation we gotta stay on the cutting edge and get the most advanced set up.

There was no learning curve to my plexi 1/2 stack, head cable, cab, two volume controls, and the most useless tone controls (but the knobs looked cool, as did the four big input jacks)...now look at what we use today? What happened?

EDIT when I said that simplicity is often reflected by the artist, that was not a shot at talent...it was about the general attitude of the artist, keeping it simple.

[ross g]

hey hink,
i've only checked out the line 6 stuff and i agree,you can't really judge the sounds of the simulation until you kill the delay/reverb which presets seem to all have...i've never used much reverb on guitar, i've got a twin and i love the spring reverb sound, just not all the time...i figure that the complexity is there for options, i'd love to have access to a good mutron phase and a roland or other tape echo, plus all the different distortions and amp for <$500, hell yes!

a question about the line 6 stuff or other amp modellers: can you use it effectivly for recording bass? i've gotten okay stuff thru my carvin 100w head/peavey bottom half stack live, but not you're typical low end reggae-style bass (which i dig), more of a lemmy-style i suppose (gotta love lemmy also! i use this example to illustrate what i'd expect of a guitar amp modeler ie, notset up for bass guitar)...i can get a pretty good sound going direct and i have a peavey solid state head and a 2X15 ampeg bottom that gives a good low end w/distortion sound, actually great for sine wave synth, but i don't have a good bass mic at this time (it's on my wish list)...i'm not in the market for an amp-sim pedal at this time but i'd consider it if i could get useful guitar and electric bass guitar recording duties from a single unit (i've considered the sans amp for bass also)

thanks,
rg

[jtxx000]

I can get good clean sounds out of my bass and a podxt but it won't give you a decent sounding dirty bass.

[Hink]

ross if you want a nice bass sound checkout Tech21 Bass DI...

[ross g]

i forgot sansamp=Tech 21

rg

[Genetic_Junk]

I'm not about obtaining the most realistic tube amp emulation; I just want to be able to create as many different tones as possible. Though the debates over which is the best (harmony central) emulator does get tiresome so I do understand what you are arguing here.

I also do all my editing through the PC, though what's really cool is that you can use the unit to control midi. The foot pedal as well as the drive, bass, etc. knobs also transmit midi data. So I will occasional use those to mess with synths and effects in real time. Unfortunately the pedal controller is getting real squeaky and difficult to move, so I'm going to send it in to Line6 to look at. This is the second one I've had that has had this problem by the way.

I'm really happy with this thing.

Hink, do you have the Live or the desktop unit? I’m wondering if the desktop unit has an input for the variax guitar. It’s actually just a CAT 5 cable input.

edit: I just looked on the Line6 website and it unfortunately doesn't have the variax input.

[Funkybot]

Modeling is easier but it's not perfect IMO. I think the best route, if you're a serious guitar player, is to own a good tube amp as well as a modeller. I'm currently using Guitarport most of the time, but even with the model packs that bring it up to the amps included in the Vetta series, it still doesn't do everything. Why? Becuase I can't throw an SM57 in front on axis right on the girll, with a BLUE Ball a foot back, and a condensor a few feet back in the room, and use them as needed, etc. Sure Guitar Rig does this, but the guitar tones in Guitar Rig while ok, don't compare to even the Pod series. The technology is almost there but not quite. This will be less of an issue in the near future, but me, I'll still want both. For instance, the best clean tone I ever got from an amp or a modeller was just one BLUE Ball three inches away from the grill of my Twin. It was completely open and just wonderfully balanced. I've never approached that good a sound with a modeler. But in reality, it's a pain in the ass to set up the mics, find the sweet spots, make sure they're all in phase, then find the time when you can actually record without driving everyone around you insane. Meanwhile with a few clicks of my mouse, the Guitarport can get me a great sound rather quickly. In all honesty, I want both in my project studio. Let's face it too, while every big studio has a POD and a bunch of Line 6 gear (hell I imagine a lot of the albums we listen to have Pod's on them somewhere), when you're walking into a studio that's running you anywhere from $40 an hour and up, you're expecting to play through a good amp, and have it sound great. And if you have the right people/gear behind that, you'll get sounds that should make you glad you didn't get use a modeler.

BTW the Sansamp rules on bass, but you'll still probably want something else with it. Either a different more clean DI, like a Countryman, a mic'd bass amp, or even a different modeler. I'm a big fan of the Sansamp with my J-Station for bass, as the J-Station includes bass amps/cabs. The guitar Pod can sound ok, but none of the speaker/mic combos produce the really well round bottom end of something geared specifically for bass. What they need to do is sell some bass models, cabs, mic combos as model packs for the guitar Pod series. But, if you get yourself a nice fat rounded tone off the Sansamp (which isn't hard), and forgoe low end entirely on the Pod, you can get a nice blend of the two signals in a mix with the Pod just providing extra presence and clarity without muddying up the low end the Sansamp is getting you.

Anyway, take everything I said with a grain of salt, different strokes for different folks and all, but hopefully someone finds some of this useful.