I must comment one thing I really dislike:
After ttoz's first initial post, everyone were rushing to attack and bash Magix. There wasn't a single post defending Magix, everyone was in a usual lynch mob "big companies are always evil" manner ,people were even talking about opening Magix Hate web sites.
Then after few pages there is a post from Magix support guy, nothing special, he was just saying that they will try to solve the problem (which may be because of pressure of this thread and mails sent to them)and then suddenly, everything turns around and now everyone start posting about how Magix are great, and how it is nice to know that company cares about customers, asking for a thread name to be changed.
I don't think it is really a normal or healthy, if you understand me?
And I do think that people should have their opinion and stick to it. So:
As other companies, Magix are doing it because of profit, and it is normal for a company, they are not a charity organisation. So they are not god or bad, company has no personality, but public appearance. You should not like it or hate it like it is a single human being.
We do not know if they would react and help to ttoz with his problem if there was not this thread and all those negative reactions. So I don't think it is appropriate to be too sympathetic to Magix support guy. It is his job to come here and react. It is job of their support team to help ttoz but they didn't in the first place, it is their duty to their customers, because he has paid for their product.
Was furious, magix are trying to sort it out now
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- KVRist
- 227 posts since 27 May, 2003
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- KVRian
- 759 posts since 22 Mar, 2002 from fi
it's the internet.
never stop loving music.
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- TopModernGeezer
- 2679 posts since 14 Mar, 2001 from Stuttgart, Germany
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- KVRian
- 1336 posts since 21 Dec, 2004
Sart menu/Programs/Administrative Tools/Services/Gang spooler - Change from "startup automatically" to "Manual", or go to task manager/processes - highlight "lynchmob.exe" and choose "end now".
"I am a meat popsicle"
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Soundclick Wormhelmet
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- KVRian
- 759 posts since 22 Mar, 2002 from fi
putte,
i didn't mean it as an excuse really (and that was the first post from me in this thread) but just an observation on how things often go in the net forums and discussions.
when people are able to voice their opinion either anonymously or at least without seeing the other conversants face-to-face, they tend to think much less before talking... and OTOH be rude enough to say stupid things instead of keeping the bad breath in. which can be a bad thing usually and a good thing sometimes. i guess anyone who's been frequenting public net discussion forums (ie. the ones that have a reasonably wide user base, not just friends and friends of friends) has realized this at some point.
another observation is that if you try to be polite, patient, diplomatic and calm, nobody will listen to you unless they know you. people who shout and provocate get answerred to a lot more than people who speak sense and try to prevent a flame war or a lynch mob from starting. but that's how it's in in real life too, the ones with the loudest voice get heard no matter what they have to say
i didn't mean it as an excuse really (and that was the first post from me in this thread) but just an observation on how things often go in the net forums and discussions.
when people are able to voice their opinion either anonymously or at least without seeing the other conversants face-to-face, they tend to think much less before talking... and OTOH be rude enough to say stupid things instead of keeping the bad breath in. which can be a bad thing usually and a good thing sometimes. i guess anyone who's been frequenting public net discussion forums (ie. the ones that have a reasonably wide user base, not just friends and friends of friends) has realized this at some point.
another observation is that if you try to be polite, patient, diplomatic and calm, nobody will listen to you unless they know you. people who shout and provocate get answerred to a lot more than people who speak sense and try to prevent a flame war or a lynch mob from starting. but that's how it's in in real life too, the ones with the loudest voice get heard no matter what they have to say
never stop loving music.
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- KVRist
- 227 posts since 27 May, 2003
bluedad wrote:lynch mob?
at kvr???
no way!!!!
Actually I think it is part of the human nature, but ugly one, and is not internet exclusive.zion15 wrote:it's the internet.
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- KVRist
- 156 posts since 13 Dec, 2004 from houston texas usa
we should be glad that a thread like this would get results. when we buy from anywhere on the net, we're totally vulnerable unless we know our rights as a consumer.
ttoz [the only person I've ever heard of that buys vst's three times]
had a problem, he posted, got a couple answers and some support, the the problem came to him and said ,'we're fixing it' .
now that's love. sure, lynch mob love, but love nonetheless.
if ever you have a problem as a consumer- vervil, bluedad, or putte, it's good to know that a lynch mob at KVR will give you that very same support and love.
y'know? it's a warm and fuzzy thing.
ttoz [the only person I've ever heard of that buys vst's three times]
had a problem, he posted, got a couple answers and some support, the the problem came to him and said ,'we're fixing it' .
now that's love. sure, lynch mob love, but love nonetheless.
if ever you have a problem as a consumer- vervil, bluedad, or putte, it's good to know that a lynch mob at KVR will give you that very same support and love.
y'know? it's a warm and fuzzy thing.
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- KVRian
- 759 posts since 22 Mar, 2002 from fi
that's true too but i think the internet kind of... how would i put it. brings some of the bad sides in people to light? it just seems that some people who are nice and easy "in real life" might be idiots (sorry) in the internet. just because they CAN.Vervil wrote:Actually I think it is part of the human nature, but ugly one, and is not internet exclusive.
when you don't have to think about getting to an awkward situation, "losing your face" or getting real feedback from your peers (emotions don't translate that well as text in the net), you can say whatever you want to. it's just words on the screen. for example, the reason there aren't so many "trolls" in real life discussions is that most people have to be pretty drunk to be as daring and stupid as to start talking senseless crap.
it's also easy to ignore someone talking sense in the net - just don't reply - whereas if someone says something to you face to face, it's pretty hard to pretend you didn't hear it.
i have a feeling that some people don't actually want to realize that the words just don't come from somewhere magically, they're written by people like me and you.
for the record, a person i know who's a responsible and easy-going guy in real life once told me about how it's fun to piss people off in the net chat rooms because it's so easy and they get "angry for nothing". which just seems to prove the last point.
getting pretty sidetracked but i guess that's not a problem since the real discussion seems to be nearing its end
oh, and by this rant i'm not addressing people in this thread, just trying to make general observations. sorry.
never stop loving music.
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- KVRist
- 227 posts since 27 May, 2003
@bobbyblank:
Maybe you have missed a point of my post a bit. I am not criticizing on a lynch mob attitude. Actually I think in ttoz's case it was obviously helpful, even if it was kind of ugly. What I dislike is difference in attitude about Magix after their man posted in thread.
Not that I think that we should keep bashing them, but I do not think that is normal to go like "yeah, those guys from Magix are so great and helpful, it is so nice from them that they as a company want to make their customer ttoz happy" and i do think some of posts were like that. We should keep critical attitude at some point because it is not right if bashing is neccesary to make Magix do what they should have done in the first place. So even if I dislike lynch mob attitude (I do like George Lynch guitar playing although
)I even more dislike these double standards. Being helpful to their customers is a company's duty, not a gift or a sign of a good will.
Sorry if I was not clear enough in my first post, English is not my first language.
zion15, I agree, people tend to release some part of their personality on the internet that don't want or are not able to release in their everyday life. But I do not think it is a good or healthy thing. Personally I am opposite: more tactical in approach and polite online, because it is easy to hurt someone or just being misunderstood on internet forum or chat room then in real life. You can't see someone's face or hear color or intonation of someone's voice. And I'm not finding any pleasure in making other people feeling bad.
Maybe you have missed a point of my post a bit. I am not criticizing on a lynch mob attitude. Actually I think in ttoz's case it was obviously helpful, even if it was kind of ugly. What I dislike is difference in attitude about Magix after their man posted in thread.
Not that I think that we should keep bashing them, but I do not think that is normal to go like "yeah, those guys from Magix are so great and helpful, it is so nice from them that they as a company want to make their customer ttoz happy" and i do think some of posts were like that. We should keep critical attitude at some point because it is not right if bashing is neccesary to make Magix do what they should have done in the first place. So even if I dislike lynch mob attitude (I do like George Lynch guitar playing although
)I even more dislike these double standards. Being helpful to their customers is a company's duty, not a gift or a sign of a good will.Sorry if I was not clear enough in my first post, English is not my first language.
zion15, I agree, people tend to release some part of their personality on the internet that don't want or are not able to release in their everyday life. But I do not think it is a good or healthy thing. Personally I am opposite: more tactical in approach and polite online, because it is easy to hurt someone or just being misunderstood on internet forum or chat room then in real life. You can't see someone's face or hear color or intonation of someone's voice. And I'm not finding any pleasure in making other people feeling bad.
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- KVRist
- 156 posts since 13 Dec, 2004 from houston texas usa
understood, and I agree, vervil.
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
True enough, but a narrow and technical point. I prefer to be pragmatic about this kind of thing. Positive reinforcement is a far more effective way of influencing behavior than punishment. If a company does what's right I believe it's a good idea to let them know it's appreciated. Doing so could make it more likely that they'll fulfill their duty in future cases.Vervil wrote:Being helpful to their customers is a company's duty, not a gift or a sign of a good will.
That's all I have to say on this subject (and this thread).
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- KVRAF
- 8709 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Well that's completely wrong. It's not a duty at all...it's a useful marketing strategy that companies either decide to use willingly, not at all, or only under pressure. There are many companies that choose to give no customer support whatsoever - Sony, anyone?Vervil wrote:
Being helpful to their customers is a company's duty, not a gift or a sign of a good will.
Some companies see it as a way to gain loyal purchasers and good marketing and increase sales, some simply are content to believe their market position is impregnable and that lack of support does not affect them (interestingly there was a news headline in the business section the other day about Sony having real sales problems in many of their mainstream divisions....small wonder, eh?)
They have no "duty" apart from local laws to ensure their product works at what they sell it as...and some have been known to circumvent even those (Sony, anyone?)
So on somewhere like the net, where we really are victims to any scam a company might want to pull, of course we make a big deal about support. There are companies like OhmForce, GMedia, Voxengo, Kjaerhus and many others who get lots of Brownie points here because they have proved they do like to give support wherever possible. Others such as Sony are lambasted and rightly so.
Others like Magix indeed should get praised for offering the support that they initially refused. They've yet to earn "good developer" status, but we're not about to slate them, because when it came down to it, they came up with the goods, and good on 'em for doing so.
Yes, we are tetchy on the net - we also are almost defenceless - i.e. you have no proof that a website address is actually the homesite of a real and serious company selling products. It could be a good company, it could be a bad one, it could even be a single individual running a webscam that is stealing your money with no product to sell. To some degree you do business over the net with an awful lot of implicit trust - so when that trust is broken, it's perfectly normal to vent.
