Dongle?? WIll Philharmonik have one??

[dougsyo]

I hope not.

Agreed, esp if the C/R continues as well.

I'm getting really fed up with intrusive copy protection - all of my software is legitimate. I have tolerated a small number of C/R products, but a dongle is going too far. If Miroslav has a dongle I'll do without... hopefully at worst it will be an either/or.

Edit: interesting enough, Yellow Tools went from C/R to dongle... it was a no-win proposition for them, because no matter what they did, people hated it.

Doug

[Squids]

Relax my KVR friends. It is being announced "before" as it is still not shipping. I didn't have the power to announce this detail before this point in case any aspect of it changed up until the last minute. Copy protection is the final stage. It's a fantastic thing that this has been implemented and I will explain. But, first, to reassure anyone who pre-ordered you are not stuck with the pre-order and if this changes your decision to get it then we'll adjust it for you... but you'd be missing out on something GREAT!

So, let me explain why it's there and all the benefits of it that in my opinion outdo any negatives which are few. We all know that companies have to have some kind of copy protection to be able to continue to offer this level of product and stay around. So, considering that it is accepted that something has to be done by developers in this regard, here are the benefits of the IKey.


Authorization is tied to the IKey

Hey, remember how annoying it is when you wipe your HD and lose your digital ID and have to reauthorize? Now the digital ID is obtained from the IKey and you can wipe your HD all you want. You can also bring the Ikey with you and use the product on any computer (including someone else's) so it is more portable.

It finally has some of the benefits of hardware

In that hardware can only be used in one place at one time. This allows us to consider license transfers if you wanted to resell it. SR's policy before has always had to be to not allow it at all (even for a fee) because there is no way to know if someone just kept a copy for themselves. Well, with the key they can only play the sounds if they have a key. So, if they sell it to someone else the give the key that unlocks the sounds and can't play it anymore... which by the way, they shouldn't if they are being honest!

If you happen to be a user of Steinberg products there is an extra bonus that IK uses the same key technology and there for you can put Philharmonik's authorization on your Steinberg key if you want.

All future IK products that will use the IKey can also be authorized to either the IKey or a Steinberg Key.

By the way, the IKey IS included in the box with Philharmonik (you don't have to buy it seperately). It costs us money to have this extra copy protection and I hadn't factored that in intitially when we came up with the MSRP. For that and many other reasons the list price will eventually go up but we didn't adjust the price for the launch period. In other words, we're losing money to make it still the deal you were expecting (at least for the launch period). I didn't want to raise the price right away in case anyone was making plans to get it.

Bottom line on all of this is that a product like Miroslav Philharmonik that gives you what was $4,000 in sample library material plus more and represents a massive investment on both IK and SR needs to be protected. The authorization for the plug-in and the sounds are tied to a key. It makes a whole lot of sense. We can't change the fact that people do what they do. But, if you want products like this to come out then please be supportive. It isn't easy. We're doing our best and we ALL have to make some sacrifices for a great thing to continue such as this.

Thanks.

Squids

[james0tucson]

The basic line is that we are experincing the consequences of criminal behaviour out there. Using software without paying is CRIMINAL - fact!!!!

Actually, what you state as "fact!!!!" is not at all the case.

Neither the software license nor copyright will regulate "usage". "Using" software is simply not what's covered under this kind of law. Copying and distribution is what's covered. This may sound like a minor distinction, but it is very, very important.

Also, you state as fact that it is "CRIMINAL". Also, generally untrue. At worst, civil litigation will ensue over a copyright violation. You may be sued by a publisher, but unless you're racketeering, you're not going to be arrested. There are many important distinctions between civil and criminal law, and the assertion you made in your post indicates a certain level of ignorance of the parameters of either.

[james0tucson]

The basic line is that we are experincing the consequences of criminal behaviour out there. Using software without paying is CRIMINAL - fact!!!!

tele

But we paying customers have to suffer. What a pain.
[/i]

If you don't agree with the seller's terms, don't enter into a purchase agreement. It's that simple. If you need a product or service so badly that the seller has an easy time persuading you to buy, then, the bottom line is, you agree with the seller's terms. If that's a problem, don't put yourself in such a position that you need the product so badly that you will violate your own ethos in order to purchase it.

Should a devout Hindu invest in an abattoir?

[jplanet]

What everybody has failed to mention is that every single method of copy protection has failed. PACE, dongles, Microsoft's activation method, everything. It temporarily inconveniences pirates, permanently inconveniences paying customers.

The only thing is effectively does is stops paying customers from sharing their own copies between friends, etc...

[james0tucson]

What everybody has failed to mention is that every single method of copy protection has failed. PACE, dongles, Microsoft's activation method...

Actually, Microsoft activation is still quite effective. Yes, specific versions of specific OS products are out there that will work without activation, but that's all. There's still not been a general crack that can be applied directly to arbitrary retail products (Office 2K3, Visual Studio, or general versions of Windows.)

In that sense, it's successful.

[jmeredith]

All future IK products that will use the IKey can also be authorized to either the IKey or a Steinberg Key.
Squids

Sorry to ask a noob question but I've never used an IKey before... does that mean I would have 1 IKey for each product I own i.e., Sampletank, Sonic Synth, Amplitube, Miroslav? If so, does the key have to be in for the product to work and would I have to switch keys each time I wanted to switch products?

[dougsyo]

So, let me explain why it's there and all the benefits of it that in my opinion outdo any negatives which are few. We all know that companies have to have some kind of copy protection to be able to continue to offer this level of product and stay around. So, considering that it is accepted that something has to be done by developers in this regard, here are the benefits of the IKey.

Cakewalk seems to be doing fine with just as serial number.

I still hate dongles - even more than C/R. Dongles are way too fragile for my tastes (more so than C/R) and they suck up limited USB ports.

Doug

[Squids]

What everybody has failed to mention is that every single method of copy protection has failed. PACE, dongles, Microsoft's activation method, everything. It temporarily inconveniences pirates, permanently inconveniences paying customers.

The only thing is effectively does is stops paying customers from sharing their own copies between friends, etc...

And this affects the industry greatly. It is also a problem when people who pay for it give it to their friends. We lose so much money on just this one aspect that if only people respected and protected that from happening enough there is so much more we could do. Copy protection costs us money too (which is also money lost) but it has proven on the company statistics side to improve the amount of legit users. So just because you may see a crack of this and that doesn't meant that the system doesn't "Work" if you consider "working" to be more legit users/purchases than before. Nothing is perfect. But, every bit helps.

[Squids]

What everybody has failed to mention is that every single method of copy protection has failed. PACE, dongles, Microsoft's activation method...

Actually, Microsoft activation is still quite effective. Yes, specific versions of specific OS products are out there that will work without activation, but that's all. There's still not been a general crack that can be applied directly to arbitrary retail products (Office 2K3, Visual Studio, or general versions of Windows.)

In that sense, it's successful.

I am going to have to ask as politely as I can that general debates about copy protection vs. no copy protection or this and that about other companies like MS or laws in different countries get discussed outside of our company forum. It is a much bigger subject than just this and I don't want to have to moderate anything heavier than just something related specifically to SR right now. If you don't mind. Not pointing the finger at anyone particular even though I quoted this one post as an example.

Thanks.

[zai]

So, let me explain why it's there and all the benefits of it that in my opinion outdo any negatives which are few. We all know that companies have to have some kind of copy protection to be able to continue to offer this level of product and stay around. So, considering that it is accepted that something has to be done by developers in this regard, here are the benefits of the IKey.

Cakewalk seems to be doing fine with just as serial number. And let's face it, a multi-gigabyte sample library is not trivial to swap via Kazaa.

I still hate dongles - even more than C/R. Dongles are way too fragile for my tastes (more so than C/R) and they suck up limited USB ports.

Doug

I don't the idea of a dongle...but if that protects my investment...I'm all for it. Yes, some are going to like it, some are going to hate it...for different reasons. But if this made it "harder" for crackerzs to "provide" the software for free...I think it's doing its job.

Again, if I don't have to pay extra for the dongle...then I'm ok....

Zai

[Squids]

All future IK products that will use the IKey can also be authorized to either the IKey or a Steinberg Key.
Squids

Sorry to ask a noob question but I've never used an IKey before... does that mean I would have 1 IKey for each product I own i.e., Sampletank, Sonic Synth, Amplitube, Miroslav? If so, does the key have to be in for the product to work and would I have to switch keys each time I wanted to switch products?

The way it works is great. You only need one key and your authorization gets put on the key. You can put a ton of authorizations all onto one key. So, you can put in one key and eventually run all of your IK plugins (and it just so happens, all of your Steinberg too since it uses the same system) from that one key (when all the plug-ins support it).

Here's a good way to look at it. The authorization process used to tie the product to your computer's digital ID which I believe was obtained from the HD. That was volatile as it could be changed by reformatting or other things. Now it is simply tied to an external piece of hardware. This is GREAT!

[baggio]

It is also a problem when people who pay for it give it to their friends.

Not sure how this helps over current system IK have in place. I am a legit user of IK products and I cannot give software to friends etc as it is attached to my machine.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[baggio]

What happens when these dongles break - which inevtiable some will - what is the user supposed to do while they wait for a replacement, I presume they will not be able to use the software.

Sorry to be so negative but I had a bad experience with the Reakrot 3 dongle which just died and which left me hung and dry with no reaktor 3 while waiting for software.

Also, are upgrades to Amplitube, Sampletank etc going to have the dongle - at least then it would be possible to have a back up.